# So what's the deal with the "Galactic Alignment"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399 "2012-05-29T00:04:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/21 "2012-05-29T07:11:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The reality is that the source of the ideas that 2012 and the Galactic Alignment are big deals came from book authors that at best are philosophers with no experience in astronomy. > > [Information is Beautiful](http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/2012-the-end-of-the-world/) > > The most trusted sources on the right side of the graphic tell you how inadequate the theories from those philosophers are. You don’t know what a philosopher is, do you? A philosopher is not someone who just makes up shit. A philosopher is _most definitely_ not someone who credulously accepts nonsense without subjecting it to rigorous rational critical examination, quite the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/22 "2012-05-29T07:20:38Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Just so everybody knows, the nutcase being quoted by the OP is John Major Jenkins, whose [Alignment2012](http://alignment2012.com/about_jmj.html) site is a focal point for those spouting gibberish about this non-event. Gibberish? Did you read the website? He’s been to Mexico and Central America seven times. SEVEN TIMES! This guy must know what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/23 "2012-05-29T07:47:56Z")
I have been interested in astrophysics for many years but have never come across the Galactic Alignment as a matter of serious study. Faintly interesting, ok, but not useful when examining the Universe. However you may be interested to know that our solar system is part of a dwarf galaxy, captured by the Milky Way, which is diving at an angle through the local galactic arm. This explains why the Milky Way crosses the sky at an angle instead of being flat as you’d expect if our system was on the galactic plane. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/24 "2012-05-29T08:22:46Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > I have been interested in astrophysics for many years … > > However you may be interested to know that our solar system is part of a dwarf galaxy, captured by the Milky Way, which is diving at an angle through the local galactic arm. This explains why the Milky Way crosses the sky at an angle instead of being flat as you’d expect if our system was on the galactic plane. I’ve been interested in astronomy for many years, too, but have never heard that. Can you provide a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/25 "2012-05-29T08:37:06Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I’ve been interested in astronomy for many years, too, but have never heard that. Can you provide a cite? Yes, I should have done so. Its only just been discovered that we are part of the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy. **EDIT:** I might have to apologise and withdraw. This website [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/27/is-the-sun-from-another-galaxy/](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/27/is-the-sun-from-another-galaxy/) says it isn’t true. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/26 "2012-05-29T10:03:39Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You don’t know what a philosopher is, do you? A philosopher is not someone who just makes up shit. A philosopher is _most definitely_ not someone who credulously accepts nonsense without subjecting it to rigorous rational critical examination, quite the reverse. In general I agree. But you have to admit, there have been a few philosophers who just made up shit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/27 "2012-05-29T12:28:06Z")
> [@garbonzo607](#): > > How do you know? Are you an astronomer? We are always appealing to authority or reading things other people say. I want the source. This is why I hope Cecil will really look into this matter. It seems to me that NASA doesn’t even know, as they profess themselves. Would you feel better if Cecil quoted the same sources, or is it those fact-based sources themselves you are having trouble with? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/28 "2012-05-29T12:41:55Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > However you may be interested to know that our solar system is part of a dwarf galaxy, captured by the Milky Way, which is diving at an angle through the local galactic arm. This explains why the Milky Way crosses the sky at an angle instead of being flat as you’d expect if our system was on the galactic plane. No. I’m assuming that what you mean by “the Milky Way crosses the sky at an angle instead of being flat” is that the plane of the Milky Way is not lined up with the [ecliptic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecliptic) or the [celestial equator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_equator). The plane of the ecliptic was determined when the Sun was forming. This process occurs at random (it may be triggered by a nearby supernova, or may just happen at random). There’s no reason why the cloud should rotate in the same plane as the galaxy as a whole. As far as we can tell, stars’ rotational axes are oriented randomly, not preferentially lined up with the plane of the galaxy. If the plane of the galaxy had some effect on star formation, that’s not what we would see. The celestial equator has to do with the Earth’s orientation in space. We think large impacts in the early solar system were what determine planetary orientations. The planets in our solar system do not have their poles or equators oriented in any preferred direction, so we think this is random. I have a master’s degree in astronomy, and know many professional astronomers. I do not know any who think the galactic alignment is anything other than bull. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/29 "2012-05-29T12:56:36Z")
> [@garbonzo607](#): > > Maybe their “Gods” need a Galactic Alignment to reach Earth with the space-travel technology they currently have? [Excuse me, but does a god need with a starship?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYW_lPlekiQ) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/30 "2012-05-29T15:48:43Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You don’t know what a philosopher is, do you? A philosopher is not someone who just makes up shit. A philosopher is _most definitely_ not someone who credulously accepts nonsense without subjecting it to rigorous rational critical examination, quite the reverse. First there is what \*\*panache45 \*\*mentioned, then there is what **Anne Neville** reported, I never mentioned that they made shit, only that astronomy is not an area of expertise these philosophers come from. Nothing wrong with that, but it is clear that they did not consult the science nor the experts, they misunderstood or misrepresented what the experts and astronomers do say, and the longer philosophers continue to say that this Galactic Alignment or 2012 end of calendar deserves attention one has to realize that what they are doing is in reality to make a mockery of philosophy; after years of this charade, eventually one has to drop the idea that these specific philosophers are \*\*just \*\* misguided. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/31 "2012-05-29T15:57:41Z")
The Galactic Alignment was just a bit out of whack. We added some weight to the rim at the third sector of the Beta Quadrant, and that should stop the wobbling. Let us know if the ride doesn’t smooth out. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/32 "2012-05-29T16:35:45Z")
First, what exactly is supposed to be aligned with what? Assume for this question that the galactic center can be well-defined, and is somehow well-known, and also that the galactic plane is likewise well-defined and well-known. In this alignment, is the Sun eclipsing the galactic center, or is the ecliptic parallel to the galactic plane, or what? > [@Ken001](#): > > Yes, I should have done so. Its only just been discovered that we are part of the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy. > > **EDIT:** I might have to apologise and withdraw. This website [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/27/is-the-sun-from-another-galaxy/](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/27/is-the-sun-from-another-galaxy/) says it isn’t true. :smack: Are any nearby stars potentially part of the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy, based on their motion? Barnard’s Star has the largest proper motion, but it’s nearby, so that doesn’t translate directly to a large enough velocity relative to the Sun. Would we be able to tell, or are most stars just too far away to know? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/33 "2012-05-29T16:42:29Z")
To all these people who say the Maya are predicting an apocalypse in 2012: do you have any evidence that the Maya predicted [the Classic Maya collapse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Maya_collapse), or the coming of the Spanish and smallpox in the 1500s, or perhaps the [Guatemalan civil war](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_Civil_War)? If not, it seems they don’t have such a good track record of predicting _real_ apocalyptic events… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/34 "2012-05-29T17:25:37Z")
The Galactic equator _is_ well-defined, and one can speak of the solstice point being aligned with it. It is not, however, _precisely_ defined. It’s basically the same problem as having a smudgy line on the ground, and asking at what precise moment you cross it when walking. You do definitely cross it, but you can’t say precisely when. ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/35 "2012-05-29T18:23:14Z")
The whole Maya 2012 Armageddon thing just seems to me to be paranoid hysteria in search of plausible “facts” to hang itself upon. ---
**Author:** ![garbonzo607](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@garbonzo607](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garbonzo607)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/36 "2012-05-29T20:03:17Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > To all these people who say the Maya are predicting an apocalypse in 2012: do you have any evidence that the Maya predicted [the Classic Maya collapse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Maya_collapse), or the coming of the Spanish and smallpox in the 1500s, or perhaps the [Guatemalan civil war](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemalan_Civil_War)? If not, it seems they don’t have such a good track record of predicting _real_ apocalyptic events… To my knowledge no one here is saying the Maya predicted an “apocalypse” or “Armageddon” in 2012. I myself have never said that. I’ve said that maybe the Mayan calender presented 12.21.12 as a significant date because of _something_ astronomical, since they were astronomers, and damn good ones at that. They couldn’t predict their fall because this wasn’t astronomical. They weren’t given this information from their “Gods”. Whereas they were great astronomers without _any_ of the advanced tools we have today! So _someone_ else had to give it to them, is my theory. This is why they were such great astronomers. So I believe that their “Gods” may have some reality to them. But this is also why I put quotation marks. I don’t believe in Gods. And I don’t believe in supernatural powers. Everything supernatural that is true is just unexplained. [Now are these Mayan statues true or fake?](http://www.ufo-contact.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/mayan-astronaut.jpg) [And this one.](http://www.tomorrowstarted.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/sky-people-Mayan-ruins-Tikal-Guatemala.jpg) And who is this Physicist, “Nasim Haramein”? Is he really a physicist or has he gone overboard? > [@RaftPeople](#): > > Gibberish? > > Did you read the website? > > He’s been to Mexico and Central America seven times. SEVEN TIMES! This guy must know what he’s talking about. Do you believe him or are you being sarcastic? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/37 "2012-05-29T20:04:28Z")
> [@gunnergoz](#): > > The whole Maya 2012 Armageddon thing just seems to me to be paranoid hysteria in search of plausible “facts” to hang itself upon. It’s actually people trying to sell stuff. Some people are trying to sell books or TV/movie scripts, some are trying to sell trips to the Maya area of Mexico. Scaring people is a good way to get their attention so you can sell them stuff. Wikipedia has [a very long list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events) of dates on which the world was supposed to end, or when some apocalypse was supposed to happen. It looks like the doomsday predictors are doing even worse than the economists who have predicted 13 of the last 8 recessions. ---
**Author:** ![garbonzo607](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@garbonzo607](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garbonzo607)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/38 "2012-05-29T20:10:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Galactic equator _is_ well-defined, and one can speak of the solstice point being aligned with it. It is not, however, _precisely_ defined. It’s basically the same problem as having a smudgy line on the ground, and asking at what precise moment you cross it when walking. You do definitely cross it, but you can’t say precisely when. So is this smudgy line 1980 - 2016? If so, then we have a 1 in 5 chance that the Galactic Alignment is on the December solstice. This may have been what the Mayans were predicting. They got the day of the solstice right. > [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > It’s actually people trying to sell stuff. Some people are trying to sell books or TV/movie scripts, some are trying to sell trips to the Maya area of Mexico. Scaring people is a good way to get their attention so you can sell them stuff. > > Wikipedia has [a very long list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events) of dates on which the world was supposed to end, or when some apocalypse was supposed to happen. It looks like the doomsday predictors are doing even worse than the economists who have predicted 13 of the last 8 recessions. How can they predict 13 of 8? O.o Yes there are a lot of dates based on some vague mathematical formula or “code breaking”. This is different. But like I said, no one is saying anything about an “apocalyptic event”! I don’t believe that shit. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/39 "2012-05-29T20:12:49Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > The Galactic Alignment was just a bit out of whack. We added some weight to the rim at the third sector of the Beta Quadrant, and that should stop the wobbling. Let us know if the ride doesn’t smooth out. Damn, and our 100,000,000,000,000 mile warranty just expired. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399/40 "2012-05-29T20:13:04Z")
The Mayans didn’t predict anything. They have a calendar that rolls over approximately every 400 years. The next roll-over is (probably) at the end of 2012, although there is some dispute as to exactly how their calendar lines up with ours. But at no point is there actually a prediction that anything will happen on that date. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-the-deal-with-the-galactic-alignment/623399.md?page=3)