# So what's your opinion of Andrew Lloyd Webber **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 8, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076 "2010-09-08T17:34:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/61 "2010-09-09T08:20:33Z")
Is it just me or is the Pink Floyd claim rather weak? It’s not a complex melody. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/62 "2010-09-09T14:59:11Z")
If I were to rank every broadway musical by order of preference, none of ALW’s shows would be in my top 5, but 3 or 4 would be in my top 20. And this claim that he never writes more than one melody, or only writes one per show, is silly and easily, immediately disproven. Cats, for instance, as both _Memory_ and _The Ballad of Billy McCaw_ (although the latter was only in the London version for some bizarre rason). ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/63 "2010-09-09T15:02:29Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Then again there are Sondhiems that I’m not exactly fond of (Sunday in the Park with George, Company.) Wow, those are my two favorite Sondheim shows. \*\*Sunday \*\*is a work of genius. In fact **Sunday** , \*\*Company \*\*& **Phantom of the Opera** are my top three musicals! ( **Les Mis** would be number four.) > [@](#): > > I think ALW will be one of those popular but forgotten in thirty years composers. My grandkids will be all " who the eff was THAT?" the way we’re " Who the eff was THAT?" to mentions of people like Gary Cooper Hardly. ALW has already been around for close to 40 years and is the creator of the most successful musical of all time. And not only the most successful musical, but **Phantom of the Opera** is also the most successful piece of entertainment in history, including films. (The last figure I had seen was in 2004 when it had $3.2 \*billion \*in worldwide grosses. That’s more than LOTR, Harry Potter or Avatar. It’s only gone up since then.) If you want to say that he’d be forgotten, then you have to say that about every single composer as well. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/64 "2010-09-09T15:14:59Z")
Just to keep the facts straight, Lloyd Webber has composed music for the following shows: 1. The Likes of Us 2. Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat 3. Jeeves/By Jeeves 4. Evita 5. Variations 6. Tell Me on a Sunday 7. CATS 8. Song & Dance 9. Starlight Express 10. Cricket 11. The Phantom of the Opera 12. Aspects of Love 13. Sunset Boulevard 14. Whistle Down the Wind 15. The Beautiful Game His other works include: 1. Soundtrack to movie “Gumshoe” 2. Soundtrack to movie “The Odess File” 3. Contributions to the show Hulla Baloo 4. Requiem He will go down in history as a prolific, succesful and I think good composer. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/65 "2010-09-09T15:24:53Z")
I wasn’t really sure how to answer. When you look at the classic Aristotilian elements of drama (Plot, Character, Thought/theme, Diction, Melody, Spectacle), ALW has an unparallelled flair for Spectacle and Theme, and isn’t bad on Character. Plot, he almost universally ignores. People for whom plot is an essentially part of the theatergoing experience, generally loathe ALW. Other people don’t care about plotlessness if they feel totally transported and immersed by the experience. I think he’s fine … when I’m in the mood for Spectacle. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/66 "2010-09-09T16:09:54Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Just to keep the facts straight, Lloyd Webber has composed music for the following shows: > > 1. The Likes of Us > 2. Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat > 3. Jeeves/By Jeeves > 4. Evita > 5. Variations > 6. Tell Me on a Sunday > 7. CATS > 8. Song & Dance > 9. Starlight Express > 10. Cricket > 11. The Phantom of the Opera > 12. Aspects of Love > 13. Sunset Boulevard > 14. Whistle Down the Wind > 15. The Beautiful Game > > His other works include: > > 1. Soundtrack to movie “Gumshoe” > 2. Soundtrack to movie “The Odess File” > 3. Contributions to the show Hulla Baloo > 4. Requiem > > He will go down in history as a prolific, succesful and I think good composer. You forgot _Woman in White_ and _Love Never Dies_, understandably. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/67 "2010-09-09T16:50:29Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Just to keep the facts straight, Lloyd Webber has composed music for the following shows: > > 1. The Likes of Us > 2. Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat > 3. Jeeves/By Jeeves > 4. Evita > 5. Variations > 6. Tell Me on a Sunday > 7. CATS > 8. Song & Dance > 9. Starlight Express > 10. Cricket > 11. The Phantom of the Opera > 12. Aspects of Love > 13. Sunset Boulevard > 14. Whistle Down the Wind > 15. Woman in White > 16. The Beautiful Game > 17. Love Never Dies > > His other works include: > > 1. Soundtrack to movie “Gumshoe” > 2. Soundtrack to movie “The Odess File” > 3. Contributions to the show Hulla Baloo > 4. Requiem > > He will go down in history as a prolific, succesful and I think good composer. URGGG! Updated list ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/68 "2010-09-09T17:16:23Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > I wasn’t really sure how to answer. When you look at the classic Aristotilian elements of drama (Plot, Character, Thought/theme, Diction, Melody, Spectacle), ALW has an unparallelled flair for Spectacle and Theme, and isn’t bad on Character. Plot, he almost universally ignores. > > People for whom plot is an essentially part of the theatergoing experience, generally loathe ALW. Other people don’t care about plotlessness if they feel totally transported and immersed by the experience. > > I think he’s fine … when I’m in the mood for Spectacle. The problem here is, Webber is a composer, so Aristotle shouldn’t enter into it. This is what I meant when I said he gets credit for parts of the plays that he shouldn’t. Tim Rice is something of a genius, and almost without exception it is Rice’s contribution to the show that makes the plays he worked on worth watching. I know people love Phantom, but with the exception of Music of the Night, there isn’t a whole lot of good going on there musically and the book(which Webber did work on in this case) is just a mess. But it is SPECTACULAR! That spectacle has nothing to do with Webber though. Give the credit Hal Prince, who is also something of a genius and who helped design the spectacle. Webber is proficient, and has a knack for melody. He can usually give you one song a show that is genuinely good, but really you should expect more from your composers that 1 out of 15 songs being above average. He isn’t terrible, he just isn’t anything special and he has a tendency to recycle his music. People who are very familiar with musical theatre get frustrated that he is the one who got famous when there are so many other great composers who aren’t. The known composers are essentially him Sondheim and to a lesser extent Steven Schwartz, and that is kind of sad. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/69 "2010-09-09T17:31:49Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Mostly straight. I reserve the option to change my mind given the opportunity to do Taye Diggs, Mandy Patinkin, and/or what’s-his-name. This may be the first thread I ever subscribe to, if only to learn who what’s-his-name is. Don’t disappoint me, **Skald**. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/70 "2010-09-09T22:25:35Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Mostly straight. I reserve the option to change my mind given the opportunity to do Taye Diggs, Mandy Patinkin, and/or what’s-his-name. > > This may be the first thread I ever subscribe to, if only to learn who what’s-his-name is. > > Don’t disappoint me, **Skald**. I’m not speaking for Skald, but I’m assuming he means “Time Machine Hookup” with Mandy Patinkin since he’s [showing his years](http://images.broadwayworld.com/upload/26965/tn-500_patinkin_wm142937.jpg). I’m guessing that what’s-his-name is either [Jesse Martin](http://www.ruggedelegantliving.com/a/images/Tom.Collins.Rent.The.Movie.jpg)or [Brian Stokes Mitchell](http://www.makli.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/BrianStokesMitchell.jpg)- if not it should be- add in Nathan Lane and you’d have my foursome to to pick Rachel’s two dads from on GLEE. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/71 "2010-09-09T22:35:41Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > Kyla… i LOVED him when I was a teenager too…Now it’s Sondheim ALL the way. To be fair, I dislike musicals as a general rule now. I do love the South Park Movie, though. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/72 "2010-09-09T22:40:48Z")
His shows seem to have 1 and occasionally 2 decent songs. the rest are forgettable. But the show backgrounds and costuming are very good. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/73 "2010-09-09T22:43:10Z")
> [@](#): > > The known composers are essentially him Sondheim and to a lesser extent Steven Schwartz, and that is kind of sad. I presume that by that, you mean current composers? Because Rogers and Hammerstein and Gilbert and Sullivan are quite well-known, too. And you could make a case for Schönberg, as well (he might not be as well-known by name, but everyone knows _Les Miserables_ and _Miss Saigon_). And **Annie Xmas** , it looks like you also left off _Jesus Christ Superstar_. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/74 "2010-09-09T22:53:19Z")
[quote=“Chronos, post:73, topic:553076”] > [@](#): > > And you could make a case for Schönberg, as well (he might not be as well-known by name, but everyone knows _Les Miserables_ and _Miss Saigon_). _Return of Martin Guerre_ (by the Schönberg & co.) is similar to many ALW shows. It has a couple of my favorite melodies of anything he’s written and I like the story and the films it inspired, but the lyrics and writing and most of the score are “meh”. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/75 "2010-09-09T23:40:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The known composers are essentially him Sondheim and to a lesser extent Steven Schwartz, and that is kind of sad. > > I presume that by that, you mean current composers? Because Rogers and Hammerstein and Gilbert and Sullivan are quite well-known, too. And you could make a case for Schönberg, as well (he might not be as well-known by name, but everyone knows _Les Miserables_ and _Miss Saigon_). Yeah, I meant living working composers. There are some good one’s out there, but most people don’t know them. I don’t think you would get any responses if you started a thread asking what people thought about Claude-Michel Schönberg even though Miss Saigon and Les Miserables are well known, so I don’t think he counts because it’s the personal fame that I think is the real issue for a lot of people. Miss Saigon is every bit as bad a show as most of what Webber does, but you don’t see Schönberg getting the hate that Webber gets becuase he didn’t have Webbers genius for cultivating personal fame. And then there are the Jason Robert Browns of the world, who are even less well known and who deserve to be famous. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/76 "2010-09-09T23:47:43Z")
Let me amend that last statement to "who deserve to be _more_ famous. Brown himself isn’t quite living up to his potential, but he sticks out in my mind because of **The Last Five Years** which was so brilliant it hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/77 "2010-09-10T00:07:26Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > The problem here is, Webber is a composer, so Aristotle shouldn’t enter into it. This is what I meant when I said he gets credit for parts of the plays that he shouldn’t. Tim Rice is something of a genius, and almost without exception it is Rice’s contribution to the show that makes the plays he worked on worth watching. > … > That spectacle has nothing to do with Webber though. Give the credit Hal Prince, who is also something of a genius and who helped design the spectacle. Yes and no. Webber’s production company ran the major productions since 1977; as such he was responsible for production design and the overall vision. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076/78 "2010-09-10T01:26:22Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > …but he sticks out in my mind because of **The Last Five Years** which was so brilliant it hurts. I’d quote this for truth a million times if I could. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whats-your-opinion-of-andrew-lloyd-webber/553076.md?page=3)