# So when Democrats control everything in 2020.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 14, 2017, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577 "2017-05-14T05:59:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/61 "2017-05-15T14:02:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Democrats need to focus heavily on opposing voter ID, if they ever hope to retain popular support. Guaranteed lock on power. > > [Or perhaps not](http://www.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx). > > Regards, > Shodan Actually, we oppose it because it is the morally correct stance. Republicans support voter ID because they need to minimize minority voting in order to be competitive. What Democrats need to do is focus on retaking state legislatures in 2020 and then gerrymander the snot out of every state they control in order to maintain power at the state and national leve. With that safely in place for a decade, then push an agenda that benefits the people, starting with fine tuning Obamacare and/or Medicare for all. When Republicans start with the false fact attacks, take them seriously and refute them. Democrats made a big mistake in 2010 by thinking that Americans were too smart to fall for Republican lies about the ACA. They are not. Democrats have the advantage of having ideas. There is no Republican agenda, there is merely an anti-Democratic agenda agenda. Convince the working class that their best interest lies in voting Democratic, and Republicans need not worry about being relevant again, much less having any power. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/62 "2017-05-15T14:48:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Actually, we oppose it because it is the morally correct stance. I find that highly dubious - but also, voter ID \*sounds \*reasonable. Opposing ID, therefore, is a vote-loser. Democrats’ choice. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/63 "2017-05-15T15:05:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I find that highly dubious - but also, voter ID \*sounds \*reasonable. Opposing ID, therefore, is a vote-loser. Democrats’ choice. I think we just need to educate people that voter ID is a solution in search of a problem, there is no significant amount of voter fraud but voter ID causes significant amounts of voter disenfranchisement. As America gets less white every election, voter ID becomes a losing issue for the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/64 "2017-05-15T15:12:01Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What Democrats need to do is focus on retaking state legislatures in 2020 and then gerrymander the snot out of every state they control in order to maintain power at the state and national leve. Isn’t this already their plan? And wasn’t it the plan in 2010 and 2000? Or are you suggesting by “focus” that they de-emphasize their efforts to retake the House in 2018? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/65 "2017-05-15T15:22:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Isn’t this already their plan? And wasn’t it the plan in 2010 and 2000? Or are you suggesting by “focus” that they de-emphasize their efforts to retake the House in 2018? I don’t believe it was the plan in 2010. Republicans, to their credit, ran a very sophisticated plan to target Democratic state legislators in vulnerable districts to flip enough state houses to ram through their gerrymandering. I think the Democrats need to take a page from their playbook. I by no means want to de-emphasize winning the House in 2018. The very future of civilization is at stake. Take say the 40 closest Republican winners from 2016 and target their seats. Resources should be allocated where they can make the biggest difference. Don’t waste money on seats that can’t be won or seats that can’t be lost. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/66 "2017-05-15T15:30:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t believe it was the plan in 2010. Republicans, to their credit, ran a very sophisticated plan to target Democratic state legislators in vulnerable districts to flip enough state houses to ram through their gerrymandering. I think the Democrats need to take a page from their playbook. Is it your opinion that the Democrats didn’t “ram through their gerrymandering” in states they had total control? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I by no means want to de-emphasize winning the House in 2018. The very future of civilization is at stake. Take say the 40 closest Republican winners from 2016 and target their seats. Resources should be allocated where they can make the biggest difference. Don’t waste money on seats that can’t be won or seats that can’t be lost. So in what way(s) are you suggesting they “focus on” the 2020 state legislator races? Focus on the House in 2018, and win or lose, shift resources over to state legislators in 2020, at the expense of the Senate / House / Presidency? Or are you not really suggesting any substantive “focus” at all? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/67 "2017-05-15T15:34:12Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > In fact, given that the places Clinton disproportionately won are the cultural and economic powerhouses of the nation (Of the top 5 things people think of when they think “USA”, how many do you reckon are in states Trump won? How many are just in Cali and New York? Most of them, right?), I’d say it’s quite a bit more significant. It should matter more, not less, what people in California have to say compared to people in fucking Montana or Wyoming. I find this sort of thinking to be shallow and revolting. It boils down to saying that poor people should have less say in our government than rich people. Fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/68 "2017-05-15T15:43:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It already does – CA gets a lot more influence in the electoral college than smaller states, as it should. Those other states get a lot more influence per capita, though, which I think is unfair – every voter should have the same amount of influence on presidential elections, IMO. I’m not some Electoral College die-hard. It was the way we set things up when we ratified the Constitution, and the proportional representation for states was an important part of the compromise to achieve that ratification, so, it made sense. That being said, if you wanted to expend some of your time and energy to bring an amendment or ballot measure up for a vote that would lead to the direct election of the President, with some caveats for voter eligibility verification / electoral security measures, I would probably vote for it. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/69 "2017-05-15T15:45:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I by no means want to de-emphasize winning the House in 2018. **The very future of civilization is at stake.** That’s a silly thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/70 "2017-05-15T16:02:24Z")
The main thing that I hope for the 2020 election is that any Democratic wave extends to the state and local level. The Republicans control a greater than 2/3 supermajority of both the state legislatures and the governorships. With 50% of states being 100% Republican controlled. Until this changes, the Democrats can’t do a thing about Gerrymandering and will have a tough time getting their social and economic agendas through to the people. Unfortunately the Democrats seem to focus solely on the National scene, finding state and local government politics to be a bit pedestrian. Its going to be a tough going since the Gerrymandering is particularly strong at this level, but if the Democrats want to demonstrate their concern for main street America this is where it’s got to be done. ETA: or what BobLibDem said. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/71 "2017-05-15T16:09:18Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I by no means want to de-emphasize winning the House in 2018. The very future of civilization is at stake. One can only cry wolf so many times. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/72 "2017-05-15T16:14:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is it your opinion that the Democrats didn’t “ram through their gerrymandering” in states they had total control? > > So in what way(s) are you suggesting they “focus on” the 2020 state legislator races? Focus on the House in 2018, and win or lose, shift resources over to state legislators in 2020, at the expense of the Senate / House / Presidency? Or are you not really suggesting any substantive “focus” at all? Democrats aren’t as vicious as Republicans when they are in the majority. Districts drawn by Democratic majorities are fairer than those drawn by Republicans. Democrats need to pay more attention to the local races in 2020 to coincide with the census. They also need a full court press in 2018 to win the House back. In my opinion, the 2020 presidential race will be won or lost with no relationship to money spent. Any acceptable Democrat will win in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/73 "2017-05-15T16:15:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > … > BTW, are we also getting rid of racial gerrymandering and thus making the House 99% white? > > … Say what, now? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/74 "2017-05-15T16:30:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > One can only cry wolf so many times. This kind of hyperbole can motivate one’s own side (and is very common on all sides). It’s not meant to appeal to those with opposing viewpoints, or even those in the middle. Different tactics work for different folks. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/75 "2017-05-15T16:43:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Democrats aren’t as vicious as Republicans when they are in the majority. Districts drawn by Democratic majorities are fairer than those drawn by Republicans. Cite? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > In my opinion, the 2020 presidential race will be won or lost with no relationship to money spent. Any acceptable Democrat will win in 2020. Any rational basis for this opinion? Or is it just “hope springs eternal”? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/76 "2017-05-15T17:00:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Cite? > > Any rational basis for this opinion? Or is it just “hope springs eternal”? No cite for the first claim, just my opinion. As for the second, I present Carter v Ford. Whether or not Congress has the guts to impeach this sinister simian, Democrats will be running against a party scorched by scandal much worse than the 1976 Republican Party was. If Cheeto is on the ballot, any reasonable Democrat will coast. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/77 "2017-05-15T17:07:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > No cite for the first claim, just my opinion. I don’t mean to press, but I am curious: did you personally do any studying of, for example, the level of gerrymandering in Republican-controlled states vs Democrat-controlled states when you formed this opinion? Or is it more based off a generalized sense that Democrats are nice and good people and Republicans are mean and bad people? ETA: I ask because I’m trying to decide how much weight I ought to give your opinion. If it’s something you’ve invested time in learning about, and drew some conclusions, even if you don’t have a scientific study to support them at the moment, then I’m interested. If it’s not, then I’m less interested. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/78 "2017-05-15T18:53:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is such a silly talking point – Californians are Americans, and count just like residents of any other state. Really? Tell that to the residents of Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Wisonsin, North Carolina, Minnesota, or any other state where their vote actually counts. She won California by more than Obama ever did. The vote count in California is meaningless. > [@](#): > > A big portion of Trump’s votes come from lopsided counts in conservative states – those margins aren’t any more (or less) valid or significant than Clinton’s large margin in CA or NY. Really, which state did Trump win by more than 1 million votes? > [@](#): > > So there’s no point to “keep this in mind” unless one’s goal is to minimize Californians or Clinton. It’s no more valid to discount this large margin in CA as it is to discount Trump’s margin in Texas, South Carolina, Kentucky, or WV. And which of those did he win by more than 1 million votes? Hillary supporters are the ones trumpeting the “real” election results based on a popular vote advantage that is entirely consumed by California. Sure he won Wyoming by a huge % margin but it was like 200,000 total votes cast. So yeah, every time someone brings up the pointless popular vote margin that Hillary racked up in California as if it means a goddam thing, its appropriate to point out that 45% of the electorate didn’t bother voting (for all we know, Trump would have a popular vote advantage if we legally required everyone to vote) and that she won California (state so safe that Democrats only go there for money) by more than the margin of her popular vote “victory” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/79 "2017-05-15T19:18:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Really? Tell that to the residents of Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Wisonsin, North Carolina, Minnesota, or any other state where their vote actually counts. She won California by more than Obama ever did. The vote count in California is meaningless. > > Really, which state did Trump win by more than 1 million votes? > > And which of those did he win by more than 1 million votes? Hillary supporters are the ones trumpeting the “real” election results based on a popular vote advantage that is entirely consumed by California. > > Sure he won Wyoming by a huge % margin but it was like 200,000 total votes cast. > > So yeah, every time someone brings up the pointless popular vote margin that Hillary racked up in California as if it means a goddam thing, its appropriate to point out that 45% of the electorate didn’t bother voting (for all we know, Trump would have a popular vote advantage if we legally required everyone to vote) and that she won California (state so safe that Democrats only go there for money) by more than the margin of her popular vote “victory” Yeah, the popular vote margin doesn’t tell us much, but it has nothing to do with California. California could have been razor-thin close, with the same national margin, and the story wouldn’t be any different with regards to the importance or significance of the national margin. There are plenty of states that Trump won by the same percentage or more that Hillary won California. Her margin is no more “consumed” by CA than it is by the combination of NY, NJ, MA, and MD – her margin was nation wide, not in a single state. Why is the CA margin singled out so often? It’s like saying NY state (or CA itself) would go Republican if it weren’t for NYC (or LA + SF + SD + Sacramento) – perhaps it’s true, but who cares, and how is this relevant to anything except to denigrate New Yorkers (or CA city folks)? NYC (and the CA cities) are part of the state, and just as relevant as any other portion of the state. I’m annoyed by this argument because it’s always used to denigrate Democrats and voters based on the state they live in. It has no other purpose and tells us nothing else. CA is very important to Democrats and they’d have no chance at an EC victory without it. It’s not a swing state, and thus doesn’t attract campaign attention, but that’s the fault of the electoral college, not of California or Californians. Your argument serves no other purpose but to denigrate Californians (and Democrats in general). A margin isn’t any more or less important or significant just because California contributed to it. The popular vote doesn’t count in any way except perception and optics, but that has nothing to do with California or Californians. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577/80 "2017-05-15T20:10:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think we just need to educate people that voter ID is a solution in search of a problem, there is no significant amount of voter fraud but voter ID causes significant amounts of voter disenfranchisement. QFT. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-democrats-control-everything-in-2020/786577.md?page=5)