# So when exactly did the Republican party start becoming "insane"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 7, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747 "2015-12-07T22:36:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/121 "2015-12-09T22:21:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Democrats seem increasingly contemptuous of the rule of law and the constitution. They have lost in court on gun control repeatedly, but keep coming back to it. Like the anti-choice movement ended when _Roe v. Wade_ was decided?! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/122 "2015-12-10T03:12:17Z")
I seem to have missed the period when Sam Stone was NOT an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/123 "2015-12-10T05:21:18Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I seem to have missed the period when Sam Stone was NOT an idiot. He often says perfectly reasonable things on subjects unrelated to politics, or even sometimes on political subjects that aren’t overtly partisan. If you accidentally push his conservatives-vs-liberals button, though, he just goes into his illogical-talking-points-regurgitation mode unhampered by rational thought. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/124 "2015-12-10T13:01:10Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I seem to have missed the period when Sam Stone was NOT an idiot. It’s not that his core idiocy has changed, it’s just that he is usually a bit more savvy about giving it a thin veneer of sensibility. Enough anyway that a superficial read might not make one recoil at all. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/125 "2015-12-10T13:03:44Z")
The GOP’s craziness works at the state level and in off-year House votes, but fails spectacularly for presidential elections; so you have congressional and gubernatorial candidates pandering to the party’s old, white racists who have little understanding of the outside world, but that backfires in a presidential election where old white and racist isn’t enough anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/126 "2015-12-10T13:53:48Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I seem to have missed the period when Sam Stone was NOT an idiot. It was a Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/127 "2015-12-10T14:11:04Z")
[http://talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/trump-muslim-ban-voter-support](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/trump-muslim-ban-voter-support) Earlier in the week, some were calling Trump a fascist, or at least a proto-fascist due to his call to ban Muslims. See e.g.: > **[Is Donald Trump a fascist? | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/opinions/bergen-is-trump-fascist/)** > > Donald Trump meets many criteria in a historian's checklist of what defines a fascist, and he echoes a wave of extremist movements in some European countries. The poll I linked above shows that 2/3 of likely Republican voters support this position. It seems to me that Trump is showing that rather than the dog whistles of racism and other horrific ideas we grew accustomed to from conservatives, one can just come out and say proto-fascist stuff and Republican voters will respond vigorously. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/128 "2015-12-10T14:47:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > He often says perfectly reasonable things on subjects unrelated to politics Yeah, his recipe for tuna-noodle casserole is to die for. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/129 "2015-12-10T15:22:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Which Democrats have said this? Genuine question. I liked **Kiber** ’s post very much. I vote for Democrats and felt he captured my thoughts on all the issues. I call myself a centrist or moderate because I usually am sympathetic to both sides of an issue. (I’m often indecisive. ☹ ) I come across as a “liberal” on this Board just because I find it so easy to ridicule the kindergarten-level black-and-white “thinking” of so many modern-day “conservatives.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/130 "2015-12-10T15:28:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I liked **Kiber** ’s post very much. I vote for Democrats and felt he captured my thoughts on all the issues. > > I call myself a centrist or moderate because I usually am sympathetic to both sides of an issue. (I’m often indecisive. ☹ ) > > I come across as a “liberal” on this Board just because I find it so easy to ridicule the kindergarten-level black-and-white “thinking” of so many modern-day “conservatives.” …Not really a great answer. We’re looking for politicians, and to be honest, I can’t find 'em either. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/131 "2015-12-10T15:39:48Z")
> [@](#): > > The United States is a nation of immigrants and we recognize the contributions that people from all over the world have made to our country. > > House Democrats continue to work for common sense, comprehensive, and balanced immigration reform: reform that secures our borders, respects the rule of law, and provides immigrants with a fair chance of achieving the American Dream. During the 113th Congress, House Democrats introduced H.R. 15, bipartisan legislation that reforms our broken immigration system and provides a pathway to citizenship. > > Democrats believe that passing comprehensive immigration reform is not only the morally right thing to do, but it is also good for our economy and will help our fiscal outlook. According to the Congressional Budget Office, comprehensive immigration reform would reduce the deficit by $900 billion over the next twenty years, including $200 billion in the first decade alone. > > Comprehensive reform is supported by the majority of Americans, as well as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the AFL-CIO, the agriculture community, the technology community, the faith community, and others. Steny Hoyer, Democratic Whip. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/132 "2015-12-10T15:40:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > [Poll: Nearly Two-Thirds Of Likely GOP Voters Back Trump’s Muslim Ban - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/polltracker/trump-muslim-ban-voter-support) > > Earlier in the week, some were calling Trump a fascist, or at least a proto-fascist due to his call to ban Muslims. See e.g.: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/opinions/bergen-is-trump-fascist/](http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/opinions/bergen-is-trump-fascist/) > > The poll I linked above shows that 2/3 of likely Republican voters support this position. > > It seems to me that Trump is showing that rather than the dog whistles of racism and other horrific ideas we grew accustomed to from conservatives, one can just come out and say proto-fascist stuff and Republican voters will respond vigorously. In previous discussions I noticed that proto-fascist response when I participated in discussions about coups in Latin America; many republicans just have a blind sport and consider in effect that right wing military coups are coming from “defenders of democracy” and are willing to drop any democratic ideals that they claim to have in favor of expedience and their dislike of their political enemies. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/133 "2015-12-10T20:35:00Z")
Two words, people: Karl Rove. He orchestrated the strategy of using the wingnuts to grab the White House. These are his chickens coming home to roost. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/134 "2015-12-10T20:36:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Which Democrats have said this? Genuine question. Let’s see . . . > [@President Obama](#): > > When I took office, I committed to fixing this broken immigration system. And I began by doing what I could to **secure our borders**. Today, we have more agents and technology deployed to secure our southern border than at any time in our history. And over the past six years, illegal border crossings have been cut by more than half." [Link](https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/immigration/border-security) > [@Hillary Clinton](#): > > “Well, look, I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to **build a barrier, to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in** ,” Clinton said. "And I do think you have to **control your borders**.” [Link](http://freebeacon.com/politics/hillary-clinton-you-have-to-control-your-borders/). > [@Nancy Pelosi](#): > > “House Democrats support bipartisan, comprehensive legislation that **secures our borders** ,” [Link](https://pelosi.house.gov/issues/immigration) > [@Harry Reid](#): > > “I took the initiative in **improving border security** as the original sponsor of the Improving America’s Security Act. This legislation, which became law in 2007, improved communications capabilities among emergency response providers near border areas, mandated the hiring of hundreds of new Customs and Border Protections officers, and supported the integration of chemical and nuclear detection equipment with border security systems. In 2008, I secured a $3 billion surge in emergency spending to substantially increase the number of Border Patrol Agents; deploy more unmanned aerial vehicles, ground-based radar, and camera towers to help patrol isolated areas of the border; construct roads along the border for the use of Border Patrol vehicles, as well as additional miles of vehicle and pedestrian fencing; and achieve and maintain operational control over the international land and maritime borders of the United States. In August 2010, I led the passage of a $600 million border security package that allocated funding to hire an additional 1,000 Border Patrol agents, 250 new Customs and Border Protection officers, and 250 new Immigration and Customs Enforcement personnel. Additionally, this legislation funded upgrades for communications equipment used by border security agents, as well as the purchase of additional unmanned drones to curb human trafficking and drug smuggling.” [Link](http://www.reid.senate.gov/issues/homelandsecurity) > [@The Bernie Website](#): > > “Bernie supports immigration reform that will address the legal status of the 11 million undocumented people in our country, protect American jobs by way of visa reform, **secure the border** , and protect undocumented workers from labor exploitation.” [Link](http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-immigration/) Hopefully that’s enough to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/135 "2015-12-10T21:24:03Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Having been persuaded that this well was truly poisoned right from the get-go, I’m moving this to the Pit. You had to be persuaded? Fucking wow man. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/136 "2015-12-10T21:44:35Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And I think **Slow Moving Vehicle** has it right- the courting of the Christian right wing is where the crazy really started to eat the party, and the corresponding painting of issues as being a fight of Good vs Evil, with no tolerance for compromise or shades of gray style politics. This. In the past, Federal politics was a process of compromise between left and right, with some in the middle from both parties. Now, the Christian right in particular has framed the debate in absolutes. Obama was not just wrong, he is the **literal** Antichrist. You don’t compromise with the literal Antichrist. No compromise. At all. Ever. The world is black and white with no shades of grey. It is this that has completely poisoned the political well at the US Federal level. It has been incrementally creeping along for decades, but reached a fever pitch when Obama was voted in. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/137 "2015-12-10T22:39:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t believe that the economic and social policies of the left are good for the strategic growth of our country. Well, this is belief on your part since there is precious little empirical evidence to support it. In fact, over the last decades, economic growth has been better under Democratic Presidents than Republican ones (see [Want A Better Economy? History Says Vote Democrat!](http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/10/10/want-a-better-economy-history-says-vote-democrat/) or [Why the economy performs better under Democratic presidents | Fortune](http://fortune.com/2014/07/29/economic-growth-democratic-presidents/) ). Yes, it might just be a fluke or have some other explanation, but it is pretty hard to make an empirical case that the truth is exactly opposite what the data seem to imply. And, this is particularly bad for Republicans because all Republicans have (if you are not part of the upper few percent) is a claim that they make the pie bigger and thus help almost everybody. It is certainly clear that they don’t help the poor or middle class by redistributing the pie, since the direction of their redistribution is upward. So, if Republicans can’t claim to produce significantly more economic growth than Democrats there is really very little economic justification for voting for them (unless you are one of the wealthy class or believe you are destined to become one). ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/138 "2015-12-11T16:48:42Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How would their social and welfare policies look if they fulfilled their defense obligations? > [@octopus](#): > > And don’t you think being a parasite to American military protection is unbecoming a prosperous modern nation that has committed to a certain level of defense spending? Finding these replies in a thread about Republican ignorance and insanity may have done permanent damage to my irony-meter. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/139 "2015-12-11T17:24:12Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > So, if Republicans can’t claim to produce significantly more economic growth than Democrats there is really very little economic justification for voting for them (unless you are one of the wealthy class or believe you are destined to become one). The delusion of “destined to become one” essentially defines the major Republican base, also known as the “Joe the Plumber Delusion”. Otherwise only about 1% of the population has an arguably rational if morally dubious justification for voting Republican, in that it benefits them financially while screwing everyone else. Although the economic mismanagement they bring tends to impact overall economic prosperity which isn’t great for anyone in the long run, and occasionally they manage to create total catastrophe, like Dubya did when he inherited a robust economy from Clinton and 8 years later handed over to his successor the worst economic wreckage since the Great Depression. It kind of inspires me to draw up a quick summary of the highlights of the current Republican Party – we can title it “Republicans: What’s Not to Love?” … [ul] [li]1% of their base possesses vast wealth and is driven by avaricious greed to possess more[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]99% of their base is delusional[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]They tend to mismanage the economy[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]they are contemptuous of science, at least in matters of global warming, evolution, and much of economics[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]their current top two presidential candidates are both clinically insane[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]they are misogynistic and contemptuous of women’s rights[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]their favorite hobby is dropping bombs on other countries[/li][/ul] [ul] [li]they know that no matter what they do, God is on their side[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747/140 "2015-12-11T17:42:39Z")
You forgot to mention their overriding fear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-exactly-did-the-republican-party-start-becoming-insane/739747.md?page=8)