# "So when is Dark Knight 2 coming out?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 19, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092 "2008-07-19T22:16:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/41 "2008-07-21T17:56:46Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] I thought the Penquin movie sucked. I was embarassed for all the actors concerned. [/QUOTE] Batman Returns? Are you kidding? I thought that was one of the most brilliant superhero movie ever. I don’t think the Nolan brothers can top that one. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/42 "2008-07-21T18:10:16Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] Batman Returns? Are you kidding? I thought that was one of the most brilliant superhero movie ever. I don’t think the Nolan brothers can top that one. [/QUOTE] Are you kidding? Until Schumacher killed the Bat-franchise with Batman and Robin (even though I don’t think such a movie _exists_), Returns was by far the worst one. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/43 "2008-07-21T18:14:16Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Are you kidding? Until Schumacher killed the Bat-franchise with Batman and Robin (even though I don’t think such a movie _exists_), Returns was by far the worst one. [/QUOTE] Wow. Can you elaborate? I don’t agree, obviously; I think _Returns_ was weaker than the first Batman but light years better than _Batman Forever_ (and obviously better than _B&R_). I’m curious as to the reasons behind this opinion. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/44 "2008-07-21T18:19:36Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] I think the only way to solve it would be to de-emphasize the villain in a putative third movie, to put Batman more front and center and let the villain(s) be truly supportive or even incidental. [/QUOTE] It does seem the “villain” of the next film will be Batman himself. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/45 "2008-07-21T18:21:17Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Are you kidding? Until Schumacher killed the Bat-franchise with Batman and Robin (even though I don’t think such a movie _exists_), Returns was by far the worst one. [/QUOTE] What was bad about it? Everything about it was pretty brilliant, IMHO. It wasn’t cartoonish or campy…rather, pretty much everyone was fleshed out, very real. It just felt way more like a real movie than any other superhero movie I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/46 "2008-07-21T18:26:36Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] Batman Returns? Are you kidding? I thought that was one of the most brilliant superhero movie ever. I don’t think the Nolan brothers can top that one. [/quote] It could have been an awesome Batman movie… if they’d made it in 1968, with Adam West in the title role. Which does, at least, put it ahead of _Batman Forever_ and _Batman and Robin_, in that there are no conceivable circumstances in which those two movies could possibly have been good. > [@](#): > > It wasn’t cartoonish or campy…rather, pretty much everyone was fleshed out, very real. :dubious: The Penguin’s master plan involved an army of penguins with rocket launchers. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/47 "2008-07-21T18:32:18Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] :dubious: The Penguin’s master plan involved an army of penguins with rocket launchers. [/QUOTE] Well, yeah, but I meant the characterizations, the personality. The whole aura of darkness. This is brooding I can deal with, not Peter Parker jerking off and crying about great responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/48 "2008-07-21T18:48:56Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] To be fair, wasn’t this the movie that used the term “Jason X” in a different context within the movie? And how many 7th graders know how many Friday the 13th movies there are? And what the hell are they doing watching it anyway? [/QUOTE] I hate to tell you, but a lot of 7th Graders watch the Saw and Hostel movies as well. I’m shocked, but I think parents think those movies are about on par with mild horror movies of the 80’s. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/49 "2008-07-21T19:14:05Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] [QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] Are you kidding? Until Schumacher killed the Bat-franchise with Batman and Robin (even though I don’t think such a movie _exists_), Returns was by far the worst one. [/QUOTE] Wow. Can you elaborate? I don’t agree, obviously; I think _Returns_ was weaker than the first Batman but light years better than _Batman Forever_ (and obviously better than _B&R_). I’m curious as to the reasons behind this opinion. [/QUOTE] You realize that contrary to your statement, you do agree with **Justin** here, right? You both say the same thing: _Batman_ \> _Batman Returns_ \> the other two. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/50 "2008-07-21T19:18:40Z")
[QUOTE=KneadToKnow] You realize that contrary to your statement, you do agree with **Justin** here, right? You both say the same thing: _Batman_ \> _Batman Returns_ \> the other two. [/QUOTE] It seems to me that Justin is saying Batman \> Batman Forever \> Batman Returns \> Batman and Robin. I’d reverse the middle two in that list, and it wouldn’t be a minor distinction, either. I thought Batman Returns was a great movie; Batman Forever belongs in the same pit of forgetting into which Batman and Robin should rightly be placed. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/51 "2008-07-21T19:25:43Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] :dubious: The Penguin’s master plan involved an army of penguins with rocket launchers. [/QUOTE] CHECKMATE! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/52 "2008-07-21T19:37:12Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] :dubious: The Penguin’s master plan involved an army of penguins with rocket launchers. [/QUOTE] Hold on a minute, here. In _Batman Begins_, Ra’s Al Ghul’s master plan involved a device that could vaporize water in the pipes of Gotham city, but not anywhere else. At all. I honestly believe that an army of trained penguins with rocket launchers strains credulity _less_ than the existence of such a device. Heck, the entire fabric of the Batman universe relies upon the assumption that folks could interact with both Bruce Wayne and Batman and never ever notice that they look exactly the same from the nose down. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/53 "2008-07-21T19:45:33Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Hold on a minute, here. In _Batman Begins_, Ra’s Al Ghul’s master plan involved a device that could vaporize water in the pipes of Gotham city, but not anywhere else. At all. I honestly believe that an army of trained penguins with rocket launchers strains credulity _less_ than the existence of such a device. Heck, the entire fabric of the Batman universe relies upon the assumption that folks could interact with both Bruce Wayne and Batman and never ever notice that they look exactly the same from the nose down. [/QUOTE] I grant you that the McGuffin in Begins was not spectuacular, but it was in the “comic book science” exception. Forever has trained penguins…with ROCKET LAUNCHERS! :smack: 😉 That traveled from comic bookish to cartoonish. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/54 "2008-07-21T19:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Hold on a minute, here. In _Batman Begins_, Ra’s Al Ghul’s master plan involved a device that could vaporize water in the pipes of Gotham city, but not anywhere else. At all. I honestly believe that an army of trained penguins with rocket launchers strains credulity _less_ than the existence of such a device. [/quote] You’re missing the point. I wasn’t talking about realism, but about camp and cartoonishness. The water vaporizer may be scientifically ludicrous, but it wasn’t _aesthetically_ ludicrous. On the other hand, while it is indeed possible to strap a radio controlled rocket launcher onto a penguin, the idea itself is silly. It’s straight out of the '60’s era high-camp Batman. He might as well have defeated the Penguin by throwing a mass-produced fruit pie at him. Put another way, the water vaporizing device is merely impossible. But the penguin army was improbable in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/55 "2008-07-21T20:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] Heck, the entire fabric of the Batman universe relies upon the assumption that folks could interact with both Bruce Wayne and Batman and never ever notice that they look exactly the same from the nose down. [/QUOTE] In all fairness, who really notices what people look like just from the nose down? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/56 "2008-07-21T20:18:23Z")
[QUOTE=storyteller0910] It seems to me that Justin is saying Batman \> Batman Forever \> Batman Returns \> Batman and Robin. [/QUOTE] That’s correct. I just thought Returns was _too_ dark. As I got older, I realized this was in line with Tim Burton’s “I’m more dark and brooding than you!” filmmaking style. The Penguin was ridiculous. The Penguin’s schemes were ridiculous. And the whole thing seemed less “special” than the first Batman. I enjoy Batman Forever because it’s just so completely over-the-top. Plus, I love Tommy Lee Jones and he seems to be the only one that got “Batman” right as a character. The others were fine Bruce Waynes, but he was “Batman.” Of course, Begins and The Dark Knight blow all three away. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/57 "2008-07-21T20:19:11Z")
That was actually a funny bit in DK, where Bruce Wayne holds the menu over Dent’s eyes to see if he looks like Batman. Realistically though, this isn’t like Superman where people get a good look at Batman. When he appears, it is either dark or he is moving fast. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/58 "2008-07-21T20:38:58Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] I enjoy Batman Forever because it’s just so completely over-the-top. Plus, I love **Tommy Lee Jones** and he seems to be the only one that got “Batman” right as a character. The others were fine Bruce Waynes, but he was “Batman.” [/QUOTE] He’s an amazing guy. His Val Kilmer impression was beyond reproach. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/59 "2008-07-21T20:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] He’s an amazing guy. His Val Kilmer impression was beyond reproach. [/QUOTE] Dammit, that “he” in my post was supposed to be “Val Kilmer”, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092/60 "2008-07-21T20:52:00Z")
[QUOTE=Whiteknight] Shouldn’t it be “The Dark Night 2 (Batman Begins 3)(Batman 7)”? [/QUOTE] **“The Dark Night 2 (Batman Begins 3)(Batman 7):Electric Bugaloo!”** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-is-dark-knight-2-coming-out/457092.md?page=4)