# So when we know who bombed the Boston Marathon... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026 "2013-04-18T11:14:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/41 "2013-04-18T21:09:49Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > So Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Churchill etc should have been removed from power during WWII? I don’t know. Some of their actions are certainly evil and they cost thousands of innocent lives. Would things have been worse if they didn’t do those things? Who knows? Regardles, I’m not sure of the relevance of WWII to this discussion. It sounds like an interesting topic for Great Debates though. Why don’t you go over there and start that fascinating thread. Right now, however, I’m more interested in discussing our tactics against targets that do not have a luftwaffe to match ours. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/42 "2013-04-18T21:19:22Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Yeah, I’m bringing up this recent tragedy as a sort of metaphor, rightly or wrongly. Imagine if we were subject to the methods WE OURSELVES use on other countries. Your son, your daughter, all become possible collateral damage, all in the name of keeping America safe. One might argue that it’s _because_ we use those methods that we don’t have to tolerate our sons and daughters becoming possible collateral damage. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/43 "2013-04-18T21:19:36Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > I don’t know. Some of their actions are certainly evil and they cost thousands of innocent lives. Would things have been worse if they didn’t do those things? Who knows? Apparently YOU do. Your claim is that their actions were evil and those people should have been removed from power as soon as possible. Post-hoc justifications that “maybe” their actions were justified in hindsight just mean your position isn’t consistent. If certain actions are as unambiguously evil as you originally claim, stand up for it. If those actions may sometimes be found to be justified in hindsight, then own up and admit that maybe sometimes our elected officials (and their subordinates by proxy) sometimes might have to do things without a public referendum every damned time. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/44 "2013-04-18T21:21:24Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Still, you gotta wonder, exactly who gets to decide that the 12 year old girl that happens to live next door to Mohammed Mahmoud ibn Mohammed alHashidi…needs to die a horrible death so that no jungle gyms in America are threatened by mr alHashidi? Well, with proper notice (and I’d suggest my proposal or The President’s precedents of bombing the shit out of suspected terrorist-trained residents residences constitute proper notice) then I’d submit to you that decision is made by Mohammed etc. and those who knowingly allow themselves to be his meat shields. Brownmen ain’t stupid, surely they don’t think the drones are blowing shit up at random. They’ve got to have realized by now that it’s in their best interests to know who their neighbors are because someday “BOOM” can happen. I can tell you, if my government was not capable of protecting me from some foreign power dropping bombs in my hood, I’d be bowing to my new overlord and interrogating my neighbors in-depth as to what sort of shenanigans they get up to, and could they possibly be putting me and mine at risk. Peace, even hegemonic peace, is a good thing. Which makes me wonder if there isn’t some kind of mafia-esque protection going on. “Hi I’m your new neighbor Mahmoud etc. Your little Afsana’s a mighty sweet little girl. It would be a shame if our houses got blowed up, right?” ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/45 "2013-04-18T21:22:37Z")
We have a luftwaffe? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/46 "2013-04-18T21:26:13Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > We have a luftwaffe? > Really? Sure. Next aisle over from the jackboots and brown shirts and across the store from the panzers. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/47 "2013-04-18T21:28:38Z")
You mean over by Obama’s Nazi Socialism boutique? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/48 "2013-04-18T21:30:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s what representative government _is_. Ok, that’s an overgeneralization so big it’s almost absurd, but everybody else was doing it and I wanted to fit in. Is it? Do we just elect people at random and let them do whatever without any sort of accountability? They raised your taxes! Who? I don’t know. But taxes are higher now. Why? Who knows? We don’t need to know. We’ve elected these people, and they know better. I’m pretty sure no one actually thinks that is what representative government is supposed to be. That’s just being stupid. You need to be able to hold people in government accountable. They say x number of innocent men, women and children had to die to kill guy x - trust us. Or, take our word for it, guy X should be held indefinitely without any charges. But who says? Why? How are we supposed to determine, objectively if this is the machinations of a corrupt or incompetent set of peoples, or if valid reasons exist, or even if just because the government used to have a particular power, it should still have it now? I specially find it extremely weird, that it’s usually the same people who don’t think our government is competent to so much as operate a pre k school, that at the same time appear to believe that the government is absolutely without reproach when it comes to killing people. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/49 "2013-04-18T21:32:01Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > We have a luftwaffe? > Really? > **[Google](https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=luftwaffe%20translation&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=72eedb37f9b7dc00&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45373924,d.dmg&biw=739&bih=179)** > > Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. Google has many special features to help you find exactly what you're looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/50 "2013-04-18T21:34:12Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Right now, however, I’m more interested in discussing our tactics against targets that do not have a luftwaffe to match ours. Ok then: > [@Kinthalis](#): > > Are we going to throw him in gitmo? Of-fucking-course not. Nobody’s been thrown in Gitmo in a decade. I don’t know why you would even think this. He/they’ll be arrested. > [@](#): > > If he lives in an apartment building, are we going to blow the whole thing up with a drone, killing everyone in there? Of-fucking-course not. Why would you blow up a building if you know where it is and can send people in to arrest someone inside? And a building on U.S. soil on top of that- not a country with a weak central government and tribal alliances? I don’t know why you would even think this. > [@](#): > > Will we try him in a court of law, where evidence against him is weighed and a case is presented for a jury and judge to decide? How the trial will turn out I don’t know and it may depend on whether this is one lunatic (or a few of them) or part of a bigger plot. I’d like to see a standard criminal trial. > [@](#): > > Or will we hold him in prison without ever filing charges against him indefinitely… no wait that’s wrong, make that until the “War on terror” is over. I don’t think that’s happening anymore, so again- why would that happen now? (I’ll admit upfront that I don’t know why the hell Bradley Manning was kept in solitary confinement so long and there was one Somali guy who was detained for a very long time. But the government isn’t doing this crap now. > [@](#): > > Curious minds want to know. I’m curious what kind of mind it is and if it’s being used. Most of this complaint is about stuff that isn’t being done anymore - and a good fucking thing because none of it ever should’ve happened at all - and to the extent people disagree with drone use, you’d think they could make the effort to figure out how they’re used beyond “duhhh, would we blow up an apartment building in the middle of Boston because I can’t think of any differences between Boston and Yemen or tribal Pakistan, duhhh.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/51 "2013-04-18T21:34:59Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > [Google](https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=luftwaffe%20translation&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=72eedb37f9b7dc00&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45373924,d.dmg&biw=739&bih=179) > **[Luftwaffe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe)** > > Albert Kesselring > The Luftwaffe\[N 2\] (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German pronunciation: \[ˈlʊftvafə\] ⓘ) was the aerial-warfare branch of the Wehrmacht before and during World War II. Germany's military air arms during World War I, the Luftstreitkräfte of the Imperial Army and the Marine-Fliegerabteilung of the Imperial Navy, h... Its not even a direct translation. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/52 "2013-04-18T21:35:01Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Right now, however, I’m more interested in discussing our tactics against targets that do not have a luftwaffe to match ours. Ok then: > [@Kinthalis](#): > > Are we going to throw him in gitmo? Of-fucking-course not. Nobody’s been thrown in Gitmo in a decade. I don’t know why you would even think this. He/they’ll be arrested. > [@](#): > > If he lives in an apartment building, are we going to blow the whole thing up with a drone, killing everyone in there? Of-fucking-course not. Why would you blow up a building if you know where it is and can send people in to arrest someone inside? And a building on U.S. soil on top of that- not a country with a weak central government and tribal alliances? I don’t know why you would even think this. > [@](#): > > Will we try him in a court of law, where evidence against him is weighed and a case is presented for a jury and judge to decide? How the trial will turn out I don’t know and it may depend on whether this is one lunatic (or a few of them) or part of a bigger plot. I’d like to see a standard criminal trial. > [@](#): > > Or will we hold him in prison without ever filing charges against him indefinitely… no wait that’s wrong, make that until the “War on terror” is over. I don’t think that’s happening anymore, so again- why would that happen now? (I’ll admit upfront that I don’t know why the hell Bradley Manning was kept in solitary confinement so long and there was one Somali guy who was detained for a very long time. But the government isn’t doing this crap now. > [@](#): > > Curious minds want to know. I’m curious what kind of mind it is and if it’s being used. Most of this complaint is about stuff that isn’t being done anymore - and a good fucking thing because none of it ever should’ve happened at all - and to the extent people disagree with drone use, you’d think they could make the effort to figure out how they’re used beyond “duhhh, would we blow up an apartment building in the middle of Boston because I can’t think of any differences between Boston and Yemen or tribal Pakistan, duhhh.” > [@Kinthalis](#): > > [Google](https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=luftwaffe%20translation&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=72eedb37f9b7dc00&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45373924,d.dmg&biw=739&bih=179) Come on. If you’re going to make a gratuitous Nazi comparison, at least own it. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/53 "2013-04-18T21:38:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > [Luftwaffe - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe) > > Its not even a direct translation. I don’t know what you mean. Luftwaffe is the common term Germans use to refer to an airforce. Not just their own, and not just their own during WW2. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/54 "2013-04-18T21:41:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ok then: > > Come on. If you’re going to make a gratuitous Nazi comparison, at least own it. I wasnt the one that brought up the Nazis. And my intent was to point out that these people do not pose a direct military threat to America, like the Nazis did. They don’t have an airforce/military capable of an invasion (actually I don’t think the Nazis did either). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/55 "2013-04-18T21:41:22Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > I don’t know what you mean. Luftwaffe is the common term Germans use to refer to an airforce. Not just their own, and not just their own during WW2. Sorry, didn’t realize you were German. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/56 "2013-04-18T21:44:56Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > They don’t have an airforce/military capable of an invasion (actually I don’t think the Nazis did either). No, the Nazis didn’t either, so what exactly is your point? We have two groups, neither of which posed an invasion threat and we’re to consider the Nazis a more actionable group because … ? They were better organized as a state? Better fashion sense? They called our mom bad names? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/57 "2013-04-18T21:49:34Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Better fashion sense? They really did. Very snappy dressers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/58 "2013-04-18T22:36:35Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > And my intent was to point out that these people do not pose a direct military threat to America, like the Nazis did. No, they don’t pose a direct military threat to America. They did just kill or maim dozens of people with bombs and they could presumably do more of that if they had the opportunity (not that I expect it to happen), but I guess that’s not a direct military threat to America, it’s just a direct threat to bunches of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/59 "2013-04-19T00:33:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, they don’t pose a direct military threat to America. They did just kill or maim dozens of people with bombs and they could presumably do more of that if they had the opportunity (not that I expect it to happen), but I guess that’s not a direct military threat to America, it’s just a direct threat to bunches of Americans. You don’t know that. I don’t know that, none of us knows that. THAT IS THE ISSUE. Is the guy we killed, along with his family, and his neighbors, a direct threat to the U.S? Who the fuck knows. Maybe he was strapping on a bomb while holding a ticket to JFK Airport. Or maybe he said something bad once. Or maybe some jack ass looking to make money simply dropped his name. Or maybe someone being tortured fingered him. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026/60 "2013-04-19T01:31:55Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Why’s it gotta be a black site. Check this out, black sites waterboard like this, but white sites waterboard like _this!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-when-we-know-who-bombed-the-boston-marathon/656026.md?page=4)