I don’t know. Some of their actions are certainly evil and they cost thousands of innocent lives. Would things have been worse if they didn’t do those things? Who knows?
Regardles, I’m not sure of the relevance of WWII to this discussion. It sounds like an interesting topic for Great Debates though.
Why don’t you go over there and start that fascinating thread.
Right now, however, I’m more interested in discussing our tactics against targets that do not have a luftwaffe to match ours.
One might argue that it’s because we use those methods that we don’t have to tolerate our sons and daughters becoming possible collateral damage.
Apparently YOU do.
Your claim is that their actions were evil and those people should have been removed from power as soon as possible.
Post-hoc justifications that “maybe” their actions were justified in hindsight just mean your position isn’t consistent.
If certain actions are as unambiguously evil as you originally claim, stand up for it.
If those actions may sometimes be found to be justified in hindsight, then own up and admit that maybe sometimes our elected officials (and their subordinates by proxy) sometimes might have to do things without a public referendum every damned time.
Well, with proper notice (and I’d suggest my proposal or The President’s precedents of bombing the shit out of suspected terrorist-trained residents residences constitute proper notice) then I’d submit to you that decision is made by Mohammed etc. and those who knowingly allow themselves to be his meat shields.
Brownmen ain’t stupid, surely they don’t think the drones are blowing shit up at random. They’ve got to have realized by now that it’s in their best interests to know who their neighbors are because someday “BOOM” can happen. I can tell you, if my government was not capable of protecting me from some foreign power dropping bombs in my hood, I’d be bowing to my new overlord and interrogating my neighbors in-depth as to what sort of shenanigans they get up to, and could they possibly be putting me and mine at risk. Peace, even hegemonic peace, is a good thing.
Which makes me wonder if there isn’t some kind of mafia-esque protection going on. “Hi I’m your new neighbor Mahmoud etc. Your little Afsana’s a mighty sweet little girl. It would be a shame if our houses got blowed up, right?”
We have a luftwaffe?
Really?
Sure. Next aisle over from the jackboots and brown shirts and across the store from the panzers.
You mean over by Obama’s Nazi Socialism boutique?
Is it? Do we just elect people at random and let them do whatever without any sort of accountability?
They raised your taxes! Who? I don’t know. But taxes are higher now. Why? Who knows? We don’t need to know. We’ve elected these people, and they know better.
I’m pretty sure no one actually thinks that is what representative government is supposed to be. That’s just being stupid.
You need to be able to hold people in government accountable. They say x number of innocent men, women and children had to die to kill guy x - trust us. Or, take our word for it, guy X should be held indefinitely without any charges.
But who says? Why? How are we supposed to determine, objectively if this is the machinations of a corrupt or incompetent set of peoples, or if valid reasons exist, or even if just because the government used to have a particular power, it should still have it now?
I specially find it extremely weird, that it’s usually the same people who don’t think our government is competent to so much as operate a pre k school, that at the same time appear to believe that the government is absolutely without reproach when it comes to killing people.
Ok then:
Of-fucking-course not. Nobody’s been thrown in Gitmo in a decade. I don’t know why you would even think this. He/they’ll be arrested.
Of-fucking-course not. Why would you blow up a building if you know where it is and can send people in to arrest someone inside? And a building on U.S. soil on top of that- not a country with a weak central government and tribal alliances? I don’t know why you would even think this.
How the trial will turn out I don’t know and it may depend on whether this is one lunatic (or a few of them) or part of a bigger plot. I’d like to see a standard criminal trial.
I don’t think that’s happening anymore, so again- why would that happen now? (I’ll admit upfront that I don’t know why the hell Bradley Manning was kept in solitary confinement so long and there was one Somali guy who was detained for a very long time. But the government isn’t doing this crap now.
I’m curious what kind of mind it is and if it’s being used. Most of this complaint is about stuff that isn’t being done anymore - and a good fucking thing because none of it ever should’ve happened at all - and to the extent people disagree with drone use, you’d think they could make the effort to figure out how they’re used beyond “duhhh, would we blow up an apartment building in the middle of Boston because I can’t think of any differences between Boston and Yemen or tribal Pakistan, duhhh.”
Its not even a direct translation.
Ok then:
Of-fucking-course not. Nobody’s been thrown in Gitmo in a decade. I don’t know why you would even think this. He/they’ll be arrested.
Of-fucking-course not. Why would you blow up a building if you know where it is and can send people in to arrest someone inside? And a building on U.S. soil on top of that- not a country with a weak central government and tribal alliances? I don’t know why you would even think this.
How the trial will turn out I don’t know and it may depend on whether this is one lunatic (or a few of them) or part of a bigger plot. I’d like to see a standard criminal trial.
I don’t think that’s happening anymore, so again- why would that happen now? (I’ll admit upfront that I don’t know why the hell Bradley Manning was kept in solitary confinement so long and there was one Somali guy who was detained for a very long time. But the government isn’t doing this crap now.
I’m curious what kind of mind it is and if it’s being used. Most of this complaint is about stuff that isn’t being done anymore - and a good fucking thing because none of it ever should’ve happened at all - and to the extent people disagree with drone use, you’d think they could make the effort to figure out how they’re used beyond “duhhh, would we blow up an apartment building in the middle of Boston because I can’t think of any differences between Boston and Yemen or tribal Pakistan, duhhh.”
Come on. If you’re going to make a gratuitous Nazi comparison, at least own it.
I don’t know what you mean. Luftwaffe is the common term Germans use to refer to an airforce. Not just their own, and not just their own during WW2.
I wasnt the one that brought up the Nazis.
And my intent was to point out that these people do not pose a direct military threat to America, like the Nazis did. They don’t have an airforce/military capable of an invasion (actually I don’t think the Nazis did either).
Sorry, didn’t realize you were German. My mistake.
No, the Nazis didn’t either, so what exactly is your point?
We have two groups, neither of which posed an invasion threat and we’re to consider the Nazis a more actionable group because … ? They were better organized as a state? Better fashion sense? They called our mom bad names?
They really did. Very snappy dressers.
No, they don’t pose a direct military threat to America. They did just kill or maim dozens of people with bombs and they could presumably do more of that if they had the opportunity (not that I expect it to happen), but I guess that’s not a direct military threat to America, it’s just a direct threat to bunches of Americans.
You don’t know that.
I don’t know that, none of us knows that. THAT IS THE ISSUE. Is the guy we killed, along with his family, and his neighbors, a direct threat to the U.S?
Who the fuck knows. Maybe he was strapping on a bomb while holding a ticket to JFK Airport. Or maybe he said something bad once. Or maybe some jack ass looking to make money simply dropped his name. Or maybe someone being tortured fingered him.
Check this out, black sites waterboard like this, but white sites waterboard like this!