# So Where Are the Fallujah Civilians? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305 "2004-11-17T18:05:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/21 "2004-11-18T18:26:45Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > I am a little disturbed by the rather ghoulish tone of some who have posted on this thread. It is almost as if they are _hoping_ for bad news. “\*Yes!!! \* _Thousand_s of civilian casualties. It makes America look _sooo_ bad. Yummy, yummy, yummy.” That sort of attitude is very unseemly, to say the least. You can, of course, back up this assertion by pointing out which posters in this thread are demonstrating this attitude. Can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/22 "2004-11-18T18:41:31Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > You can, of course, back up this assertion by pointing out which posters in this thread are demonstrating this attitude. Can’t you? Are you sure that **Roseworm** wasn’t joking there? It seemed a pretty farfetched claim after (s)he’d just gotten done endorsing soldiers who shoot unarmed prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/23 "2004-11-18T19:00:50Z")
That scabbed and disease-ridden whore of a lie - “You guys don’t support our troops!” gets a new dress and a slathering of lipstick and is transformed - _voila!_ - into the charming and demure _ingenue_ - “You guys hope for bad shit to happen so you can gloat.” Feh! ---
**Author:** ![Roseworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Roseworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roseworm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/24 "2004-11-18T19:06:34Z")
To **elucidator** : In spite of myself, I am actually quite amused by your remark. Well-phrased, sir - very colorful. I could hardly have done better myself. ---
**Author:** ![Roseworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Roseworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roseworm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/25 "2004-11-18T19:09:21Z")
But, since you put it that way, you guys _are_ hoping for bad shit to happen so you can gloat. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/26 "2004-11-18T19:12:31Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > But, since you put it that way, you guys _are_ hoping for bad shit to happen so you can gloat. Who is? Name names. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/27 "2004-11-18T19:13:48Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > But, since you put it that way, you guys _are_ hoping for bad shit to happen so you can gloat. And you are a fucking liar. Since when is refusing to buy into government propaganda "hoping for bad shit to happen? Nobody here wants our troops to be in danger. Nobody here wants Iraq to fall into chaos or for the insurgents to succeed. What we would like is for the Iraqi civilians not to end up as collateral damage. I’d like to see fewer–heck, _zero_–children getting shot or hit by debris from US bombs. And I like not to feel ashamed of my nation’s actions when people like you excuse war crimes. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/28 "2004-11-18T19:24:20Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > But, since you put it that way, you guys _are_ hoping for bad shit to happen so you can gloat. You know around here, we don’t go for that vague “you guys” shit. Give us specific names and prepare for evisceration, or shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/29 "2004-11-18T19:50:54Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > But, since you put it that way, you guys _are_ hoping for bad shit to happen so you can gloat. You’re pathetic. And stupid. Those of us who opposed the war before it started did so because we thought it was going to lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths and/or make the world a far less safe place. See, we didn’t want those things to happen, and we still don’t want those things to happen. Being able to say “haw haw!” to ignorant dumbshits like yourself is really not such a glorious satisfaction that it overrides those feelings, especially since we know you’ll just ignore us and keep looking for any excuse to blame every negative result of this stupid war on everyone except us. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/30 "2004-11-18T19:56:15Z")
Clarification: that last “us” should be “ourselves”, i.e. the U.S. as a nation. ---
**Author:** ![Roseworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Roseworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roseworm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/31 "2004-11-18T19:57:43Z")
“Prepare for evisceration”? I like that. You guys really are amusing. And when I say “you guys,” in this case I am referring specifically to **gobear** , **RedFury** , \*\*World Eater \*\* and the rest of the _corps de douches_. Have you ever played with a Woolly Bear caterpillar? When you poke it with a twig, it curls up into a defensive posture. Children like to tease Woolly Bears because they _always_ get a reaction. You guys are Woolly Bears. \<_poke_\> “BLEEP!BLEEP!!BLEEP!!!BLEEP!!!BLEEP!!!” You fly into an absolute paroxysm of rage and indignation if a dissenting opinion so much as shows its head above the ground. Carpet-bomb it into submission and napalm the ruins - that is your style of debate. It is hard to take it seriously, even in the BBQ Pit. So I say, do your worst. Eviscerate my cyber guts with your cyber knives. Perhaps I will be chastened by the cyber pain of it all. Jerks. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/32 "2004-11-18T20:00:23Z")
He’s got you there. Can’t eviscerate someone with no guts to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/33 "2004-11-18T20:04:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He’s got you there. Can’t eviscerate someone with no guts to begin with. You’re just irked because you were lumped in with the rest of the corps de douches. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/34 "2004-11-18T20:09:10Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > You’re just irked because you were lumped in with the rest of the corps de douches. I’m picturing them all in some three muskateers style get up. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/35 "2004-11-18T20:28:22Z")
I’m confused about the source of **Roseworm** ’s indignation. > [@](#): > > Have you ever played with a Woolly Bear caterpillar? When you poke it with a twig, it curls up into a defensive posture. Children like to tease Woolly Bears because they always get a reaction. > > You guys are Woolly Bears. \ “BLEEP!BLEEP!!BLEEP!!!BLEEP!!!BLEEP!!!” You fly into an absolute paroxysm of rage and indignation if a dissenting opinion so much as shows its head above the ground. Carpet-bomb it into submission and napalm the ruins - that is your style of debate. It is hard to take it seriously, even in the BBQ Pit. I’m all about the dissenting opinions; I just prefer them to be based on facts and not pulled from one’s posterior. Full disclosure: I was very much for the war in Iraq because I believed Colin Powell’s presentation at the UN. Turns out that the WMD pretext for the war was based on deliberate lies. Then the occupation of Iraq turned into a clusterfuck due to the incompetence of the Bush administration. Unlike most people, I base my views on the facts at hand and accept that I can always learn more. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/36 "2004-11-18T20:29:23Z")
> [@Roseworm](#): > > “Prepare for evisceration”? I like that. You guys really are amusing. And when I say “you guys,” in this case I am referring specifically to **gobear** , **RedFury** , \*\*World Eater \*\* and the rest of the _corps de douches_. Fine company I’ve been lumped in with, thanks. I’d like you show where I or any of my comrades :rolleyes: have stated/joked/implied that there’s nothing more we want in the world then a big 'ol corpse pile in Falluja. In the event you can’t find one, I cordially invite you to shut your festering pie hole lest you continue to show yourself a fool. > [@](#): > > Have you ever played with a Woolly Bear caterpillar? When you poke it with a twig, it curls up into a defensive posture. Children like to tease Woolly Bears because they _always_ get a reaction. > > You guys are Woolly Bears. \<_poke_\> “BLEEP!BLEEP!!BLEEP!!!BLEEP!!!BLEEP!!!” So you like to get a rise out of people, I’ve heard of a term for people like that… > [@](#): > > You fly into an absolute paroxysm of rage and indignation if a dissenting opinion so much as shows its head above the ground. Carpet-bomb it into submission and napalm the ruins - that is your style of debate. It is hard to take it seriously, even in the BBQ Pit. Back up the assertion, don’t change to subject. We’re wishing for a pile of civilian deaths? Prove it. > [@](#): > > So I say, do your worst. Eviscerate my cyber guts with your cyber knives. Perhaps I will be chastened by the cyber pain of it all. What **'Luci** said. > [@](#): > > Jerks. Least we have enough decency to back off an assertion when we know it’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/37 "2004-11-18T20:31:28Z")
And for the record, I want our troops to succeed in Iraq and rout the insurgents, preferably without shooting unarmed, wounded men in the head. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/38 "2004-11-18T20:56:40Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > You’re pathetic. And stupid. Those of us who opposed the war before it started did so because we thought it was going to lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths and/or make the world a far less safe place. See, we didn’t want those things to happen, and we still don’t want those things to happen. Being able to say “haw haw!” to ignorant dumbshits like yourself is really not such a glorious satisfaction that it overrides those feelings, especially since we know you’ll just ignore us and keep looking for any excuse to blame every negative result of this stupid war on everyone except us. I second these sentiments. Here’s an anology that occurred to me this morning: Someone you love is a habitual cigarette smoker. The first time you see them smoking, you tell them how upset you are to see them smoking, and that they are endangering their health for sure and possibly others around them. They respond with something like “buzz off, it’s my decision to make” or “I know it’s bad, I just can’t help myself.” Depending on their attitude, you might try, over the years, to remind them that this is a poor choice they have made and you really hope they take steps to improve the situation. They ignore you. One day, they discover that they have lung cancer. Would anyone in that scenario be happy to find out that person is paying the ultimate price for the bad decision(s) they had made? I doubt it. I know how I felt when, though I had nagged them for years to quit smoking, my grandparents developed smoking-related illnesses that killed them, and it wasn’t smug satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/39 "2004-11-18T21:12:43Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > I know how I felt when, though I had nagged them for years to quit smoking, my grandparents developed smoking-related illnesses that killed them, and it wasn’t smug satisfaction. Nope. Having been there, I can testify that my feelings were a combination of helplessness and guilt. I pestered so much and it acomplished nothing. But I could have done more! What if I had just pushed harder? The situation in Iraq is very similar for me. ---
**Author:** ![wisernow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@wisernow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wisernow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305/40 "2004-11-18T22:03:39Z")
Why do you people call those people insurgents?? By definition an insurgent is he “who revolts against civil authority or an established government”(from MW). How then does that Iraqi fighting the Americans become an insurgent? The government that has been established is a puppet regime installed by the US. The caretakers Bremer & Co were also not “governement”. The US is an illegitimate occupier in a nation and the people of that nation are revolting against that. What if the tables were reversed? What if if it was the US in place of Iraq, what would the Americans be doing? Sitting at home and letting the Iraqis run their lives?? Wouldn’t the Americans also be running around shooting invaders wherever they found them? Can you imagine how you would hate and loathe them?? That’s just how much most hate the Americans now!! Saddam or no Saddam , they did NOT want the Americans there!! Of what a fuck up your country and its government has created!! And for what??? It is just so, so, so obnoxiously stupid!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-are-the-fallujah-civilians/275305.md?page=3)