# So where can I eat a kid boiled in it's mothers milk? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321 "2005-12-19T18:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/21 "2005-12-19T21:32:31Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > I kinda get that as well. However, my question still stands - is there cheese made from pigs milk. We have goat and buffalo and cow milk based cheeses - I just don’t know about anything else. I suppose that the Mongols may have made cheese from horse milk. Dave Barbano, a food science prof from Cornell has this to say in response to “Why not pig cheese?”: > [@](#): > > Pig milk contains about 6.8 percent fat, 2.8 percent casein, 2.0 percent whey protein, 5.5 percent lactose, and 1.0 percent ash. Thus, from a composition point of view it is a fairly rich milk. However, since the pig is a nonruminant, the milk fat will be primarily long-chain fatty acids (probably a lot of C16:0). The short-chain fatty acids that provide the typical flavor to dairy products produced from ruminant milks (e.g. cow, goat, sheep, etc.) would not be present in pig milk. The fatty acid composition of the fat in the milk from pigs will be a function of the diet of the pig, just like it is for milk fat in human milk. Thus, I don’t think there is much of a future for pig milk cheese. His colleague, Dave Bandler, observes: > [@](#): > > First of all, it would not be kosher! It would have a definite pigsty/pigpen flavor (not unlike that of aged limburger) and it would probably be hard to find enough young people willing to make a career of sow milking. From here: [http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=954820800](http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=954820800) I would also hazard a guess that pig farming operations don’t produce a significant surplus of pig’s milk. It makes far more economic sense to let the piglets have it. Human use of pig’s milk is limited, although not, apparently, unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/22 "2005-12-19T21:34:41Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > I kinda get that as well. However, my question still stands - is there cheese made from pigs milk. We have goat and buffalo and cow milk based cheeses - I just don’t know about anything else. I suppose that the Mongols may have made cheese from horse milk. From the [Food Science Department at Cornell University](http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=954820800) (Question 4): > [@](#): > > Dear Uncle Ezra, > I’ve had cow cheese, goat cheese, sheep cheese…but I’ve never heard of pig cheese. Why? > > ``` > --Cheezy. > > ``` > > Dear Cheezy, > > I passed your intriguing question along to a couple of Food Science Professors, who were not the least bit "sty"mied by it: > > ``` > From Dave Barbano: "Pig milk contains about 6.8 percent fat, 2.8 percent casein, 2.0 percent whey protein, 5.5 percent lactose, and 1.0 percent ash. Thus, from a composition point of view it is a fairly rich milk. However, since the pig is a nonruminant, the milk fat will be primarily long-chain fatty acids (probably a lot of C16:0). The short-chain fatty acids that provide the typical flavor to dairy products produced from ruminant milks (e.g. cow, goat, sheep, etc.) would not be present in pig milk. The fatty acid composition of the fat in the milk from pigs will be a function of the diet of the pig, just like it is for milk fat in human milk. Thus, I don't think there is much of a future for pig milk cheese." > > From Dave Bandler: "First of all, it would not be kosher! It would have a definite pigsty/pigpen flavor (not unlike that of aged limburger) and it would probably be hard to find enough young people willing to make a career of sow milking." > > Thanks, Dave and Dave! > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/23 "2005-12-19T21:35:16Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > I kinda get that as well. However, my question still stands - is there cheese made from pigs milk. We have goat and buffalo and cow milk based cheeses - I just don’t know about anything else. I suppose that the Mongols may have made cheese from horse milk. My husband used to whoosh city people about how we raised dairy pigs and had to milk them with really short milking stools. The milk is very tasty, particularly with a green onion swizzle stick. It usually took a while for them to catch on. Now, for the serious wild ass guess: I’d say no, people do not milk pigs. Generally speaking, sows have nasty temperaments and sharp teeth. I’d certainly give milking one a pass. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/24 "2005-12-19T21:52:35Z")
Thanks for the answers and sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/25 "2005-12-19T21:58:10Z")
Getting back to the OP, I’d think the easiest way would be to go to a livestock auction and buy a bred (pregnant) doe. When she kids, start a-milking. > [@Shalmanese](#): > > And you would need a LOT of milk to boil a kid. How do you collect enough milk before it goes bad? I’d recommend a pygmy goat. The kids are about the size of a large housecat when they’re born, yet you can get a gallon or more of milk per day. If you keep all of the milk and feed the kid with formula instead, you can come up with enough to boil the kid in a week, and it won’t go bad that fast if you refrigerate it. And I’m with **Cub Mistress** on the pigs. Those things can have really bad attitudes and nasty teeth (and tusks!). You won’t catch me trying to milk one. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/26 "2005-12-19T23:20:49Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Assuming you’re serioius… Jewish dietary laws forbid mixing the meat of any animal with milk (or milk products) from any other animal. > > Question for anyone who knows: Does “meat” apply to fish? Hmmmm…Looking at my empty plate (coming from a kosher restaurant)… let’s see : fish bones, cream sauce… I think not. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/27 "2005-12-19T23:29:54Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > I kinda get that as well. However, my question still stands - is there cheese made from pigs milk. We have goat and buffalo and cow milk based cheeses - I just don’t know about anything else. I suppose that the Mongols may have made cheese from horse milk. I would doubt it. I don’t know how you would go about milking a sow. They are borderline domesticated anyway and you might wind up black and blue, or worse. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/28 "2005-12-19T23:32:19Z")
I see **Cub Mistress** beat me to it by a mile. What I wrote still goes just the same. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/29 "2005-12-19T23:40:05Z")
Don’t neglect Venezuelan beaver cheese… ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/30 "2005-12-20T00:37:09Z")
I had kid braised in milk at an Italian place (Cafe e Cucina) here a decade ago. Couldn’t say whether it was goat’s milk though. ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/31 "2005-12-20T00:44:24Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > I read a Jewish story in fifth grade about a sinful city that did this. Being fifth grade, I can’t remember which city it was. But nobody locked their doors because lock-picking was taught in elementary school, and people ate kids boiled in their mothers’ milk. I suspect it was Sodom or Gomorrah and the author just made up the details. I recall a story similar to this in Isaac Bashevis Singer’s _Stories for Children_. I unfortunately don’t have a copy on hand at the moment, so I can’t look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/32 "2005-12-20T01:43:55Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I think the OP raises an interesting question. Assuming that at some time in the past this was a common practice, is there somewhere today (presumably a non-Jewish community in the M.E.) where kid boiled in mother’s milk is on the menu? In [Genesis 18:8](http://bible.cc/genesis/18-8.htm), Abraham serves his guests a meal that includes a calf and butter and milk. It’s not quite a kid cooked in its mother’s milk, but it’s definitely not kosher by today’s rules. Of course, he’s not the only Patriarch of the Torah to do something that would be forbidden by later Torah laws. Jacob married Rachel while married to her sister Leah, which is explicitly forbidden by [Leviticus 18:18](http://bible.cc/leviticus/18-18.htm). (Polygamy was forbidden by the Rabbis much later) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/33 "2005-12-20T05:32:13Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > Don’t neglect Venezuelan beaver cheese… Venezuelan beaver cheese is foul stuff. Though, it does gain a certain something when mixed with kumquat. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/34 "2005-12-20T08:27:32Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > …Can I go some place that would serve it? Anecdotally, we went to visit some friends who had gone Back to the Land, complete with goats. While there we had goat milk, goat cheese, goat ice cream, goat pepperoni, goat jerky, and goat roast. In other words, all goat, all the time. I believe the menu one morning included creamed chipped goat, over biscuits. If I were looking for kid stewed in its mother’s milk, that would be close enough for me. My kids drank the milk enthusiastically until the next to last day, when they went a’milking with our friends. After that I was hard pressed to get 'em to drink milk from any source. No problems with the ice cream though. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/35 "2005-12-20T12:59:38Z")
I got the impression that, like many of the strange things prohibited in Jewish law, this dish was probably something prepared as part of the religious ceremonies of the surrounding people – maybe a Phoenician thing. In my agnostic opinion, the dfietary restriction may have stemmed in part from squeamishness about the inappropriateness of cooking a baby animal in the fluid that was supposed to be giving it life, but even more because it was the practice of an abhorred rival sect (who themselves probably chose to cook the kid that way precisely _becauase_ of the associations). That’s just guessing on my part, but it would be consistent with other proscriptions that do seem to be based on the Jews setting themselves apart from their neighbors. If enough people were interested, I could see a business opportunity here – The Anti-Kosher Cafe. It’s symbol could be a circled “K” with a diagonal slash through it, or something. But I don’t think there’s a big enough market for it, and the idea of a restaurant that exists solely to thumb your nose at the religious practices of your own neighbors seems offensive. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/36 "2005-12-20T19:26:59Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I got the impression that, like many of the strange things prohibited in Jewish law, this dish was probably something prepared as part of the religious ceremonies of the surrounding people – maybe a Phoenician thing. In my agnostic opinion, the dfietary restriction may have stemmed in part from squeamishness about the inappropriateness of cooking a baby animal in the fluid that was supposed to be giving it life, but even more because it was the practice of an abhorred rival sect (who themselves probably chose to cook the kid that way precisely _becauase_ of the associations). That’s just guessing on my part, but it would be consistent with other proscriptions that do seem to be based on the Jews setting themselves apart from their neighbors. > … More specifically, the Canaanites, in this case. Some sources claim the “kid boiled in goat milk” thing to be a Canaanite religous ritual. There is not agreement on this as the motivation for the biblical injunction, however. ---
**Author:** ![pubwvj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@pubwvj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pubwvj)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/37 "2011-04-07T18:50:59Z")
Unfortunately the statement “From Dave Bandler: “First of all, it would not be kosher! It would have a definite pigsty/pigpen flavor” is false. Pigs milk does not have a pigsty/pigpen flavor. It tastes like milk. In fact, remarkably like human milk. It is high in fat and protein which is why piglets grow so fast on it. Pigs do have udders, in fact ours have as many as 16 teats. This is the real reason you don’t find pigs milk - you would have to have a machine that milks all of those teats and that is a lot more setup and cleanup. The advantage of cows is just four teats. We have sows that bag up just as much as cows. Take a gander at: [http://images.google.com/images?q=site:flashweb.com+petra](http://images.google.com/images?q=site:flashweb.com+petra) [http://images.google.com/images?q=site:flashweb.com+blackie](http://images.google.com/images?q=site:flashweb.com+blackie) [http://images.google.com/images?q=site:flashweb.com+torn](http://images.google.com/images?q=site:flashweb.com+torn) ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/38 "2011-04-07T19:12:48Z")
I had some BBQ goat once here in South Georgia. How was it, you ask? Not baaaaaaaaad (really, it just tasted like BBQ sauce) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/39 "2011-04-07T19:21:35Z")
Mmm, zombie kid… ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321/40 "2011-04-07T19:26:48Z")
The OP is joking, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-can-i-eat-a-kid-boiled-in-its-mothers-milk/336321.md?page=3)