# So, where did the Democrats go wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165 "2016-11-09T08:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/201 "2016-11-16T14:52:34Z")
Interesting _Harvard Business Review_ essay on how the Dems have misjudged working-class voters: [What So Many People Don’t Get About the U.S. Working Class](https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/202 "2016-11-17T05:11:41Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Immigration. > > People, even Latinos and especially African Americans, are fed up with the open borders policy. Trump was the only one who was going to change course. We don’t \*have \*an open borders policy. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/203 "2016-11-17T05:14:01Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > We don’t \*have \*an open borders policy. Correct. And I’ve never heard a live person express any concern about this. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/204 "2016-11-17T05:22:33Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > We don’t \*have \*an open borders policy. True. But Democrats went on record as opposing deportation of all but criminals, which is a de facto open borders policy, or near enough as to make no difference. Democrats thought voters wouldn’t notice. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/205 "2016-11-17T08:22:17Z")
Having had a week to think about it, I think the key factor was complacency. Everyone was predicting a Clinton victory so a lot of people who supported her (or opposed Trump) in theory didn’t feel any urgency to go out and actually vote for her. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/206 "2016-11-17T08:31:00Z")
I wonder if the triumphalism about early voting numbers had an effect as well. 2014 also featured early reports of great Democratic turnout, which either wasn’t true, or became not true due to Democrats assuming things were in the bag because of the news reports. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/207 "2016-11-17T18:00:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Having had a week to think about it, I think the key factor was complacency. Everyone was predicting a Clinton victory so a lot of people who supported her (or opposed Trump) in theory didn’t feel any urgency to go out and actually vote for her. I agree. I believe the actions of the polling organizations and the media outlets suppressed the Democrat vote. _Hillary must have the election in the bag. Everyone says so, so why bother voting?_ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/208 "2016-11-17T18:13:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > True. But Democrats went on record as opposing deportation of all but criminals, which is a de facto open borders policy, or near enough as to make no difference. > > Democrats thought voters wouldn’t notice. No, since you still have to get into the USA, and there is a fence partly, and there is a border patrol, and checks and raids on business that hire illegals, etc. Not even close to a _de facto open borders policy_. It does mean if you’re smart enough and lucky enough to get here, and keep your nose clean and pay your taxes… then we wont spend the tax dollars to round you up and kick you out. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/209 "2016-11-20T02:54:19Z")
I’ve read that Obama said that Hillary should have campaigned more. He said that back when he ran the first time he spent lots of time in Iowa going to every fish fry and county fair he could. Hillary didnt make many appearances and most of those were just to supporters. She instead sent Hollywood celebrities. Their is an inside story that Bill told her to focus on the economy, which is how he won. Instead they focused on trying to smear Trump. Finally I think that since they knew they had the press on their side, they had it in the bag. Woops! they forgot people dont trust the press anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/210 "2016-11-20T03:04:10Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > This is the right answer and the Democrats are stupid for not taking the easy opportunity to fold them in. There are slight changes to their platform that they could make that would attract a huge number of moderate Republicans and also solidify moderate Democrats. > > A few tweaks to the platform: > > 1. Recognize that Islam has been radicalized, and assert a willingness to work with Muslims and non-Muslims to ensure that the religion becomes, once again, a religion of peace. Jesus, the Republicans got a huge burst from that Democrats refused to say “radical Islam”, which, even as a Democrat it pains me the lengths to which we twist ourselves up to try to pretend Islam is exactly the same as Mormonism with regard to violence at this moment in history. > > 2. Favor affirmative action as a method to include people of all backgrounds. One does not need to walk away from race based affirmative action, which I believe is actually a good thing for everyone. But, it’s also a good thing for everyone to include people from all backgrounds. Poor white kids are sick of being called privileged, which segues into 3… > > 3. Back off on the labeling. I get what you mean when you say that whites have an inherent privilege. It isn’t wrong, entirely. But, when that poor white family hears how privileged they are, it pisses them off, and they’re not wrong to be pissed off. They are having a hard time, maybe we should help them out too. Maybe we should have some nuance here, and acknowledge this kid’s struggle. Which links in to number 2, because this kid is now not only “privileged” but gets lumped in with all the other actual “privileged” people based solely on the color of his skin; he looks at the kids he has way more in common with socioeconomically who ARE getting a leg up, and is rightfully pissed. He genuinely needs a leg up, and let’s be the party to give it to him. > > 4. Cool your jets with being offended, and lets stop pretending every instance of offense is legitimate. Some are, no doubt. And those should be minimized, and I’ll be with you there on those. But we love being offended. We fucking LOVE it. Every time a college holds genuine meetings to address the horrible travesty of someone chalking “Trump 2016” on a campus, you lose voters. Hell, you’re losing me, and I’m on your side! Ask yourself if you’re actually offended before making an issue. When someone says “all lives matter”, you might actually have a lot in common with their opinion, so stop shitting on them reflexively. > > 5. Drop gun control for now. It’s a loser of an issue. It sucks that we can’t have a rational debate on this, but this is where we are. > > 6. Acknowledge that you have reservations on abortion. You aren’t removing a tonsil. It’s not the same thing, and it’s not just a clump of cells. I’m pro-choice, but I cringe when other people on my side are so cavalier about it. Being pro-life is a very understandable position to take, and when we act like we are 100% right on this issue, it makes us look like the chasm between us and them is way bigger than it is (similar to when they pretend that they have no problems with victims of rape and incest being forced to take a baby to term). > > Now, yes, in the general scheme of the issues facing America, these are not terribly vital. Compared to global warming and the proper tax structure, these issues are relatively trivial. But, Trump voters, at least the big chunk of non-deplorable ones, said they were scared of Muslims, and sick of PC. They aren’t entirely wrong. Let’s figure out what we are doing wrong and correct it. > > Or, we become the pure, 100% “right” and powerless party. We ask why they vote against their economic self interest, and the answer appears to be that no one votes based on economic issues, but every day issues like these. Those were all very good. I would also add to quit shoving the “alternative lifestyle” crap down peoples throats. Heck people have just learned to accept gays and NOW they have to toss in the transgender stuff with the bills now requiring bathrooms to be open to whoever feels like using them. Also allow free speech like that bakery up in Oregon that was shut down and the owners slapped with a $180,000 fine for not baking a gay wedding cake. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/211 "2016-11-20T03:06:19Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Right. She didn’t appeal to enough people. Those people are largely outside of urban areas. They voted for Trump. Many are racist assholes, we aren’t going to reach them, and we don’t want to. Most aren’t. Targeting them is opportunistic. Appeal to them. Bill did. Remember the Bill and Al bus tour? He stopped in lots of small towns campaigning. Hillary just stuck to the big cities and had to bring in celebrities. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/212 "2016-11-20T03:14:42Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Yeah in the end Hillary lost an election which she should have won easily. Forget Obama, if she had gotten the same number of votes in PA, MI and WI as Kerry 12 years ago she would be President-elect. And I don’t really blame her; she did the best within her limitations. What I am still baffled by is why the Democratic establishment cleared the deck for her when her weaknesses were all too clear and why so many Dems, including many posters here, overestimated her political skills right till election day. I think that had something to do with the fact that she was a woman and the DNC heads were all women and the ONLY choice was to be a woman. AND they expected the rank and file of democrats would do as told. They made a mistake in not going to the Bernie Sanders rallies and seeing the tens of thousands of people willing to elect him. Hillary’s rallies by comparison were a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/213 "2016-11-20T03:46:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Those were all very good. > > I would also add to quit shoving the “alternative lifestyle” crap down peoples throats. Heck people have just learned to accept gays and NOW they have to toss in the transgender stuff with the bills now requiring bathrooms to be open to whoever feels like using them. > > Also allow free speech like that bakery up in Oregon that was shut down and the owners slapped with a $180,000 fine for not baking a gay wedding cake. No, sorry. The purpose of transgender bathroom laws is to prevent transgender women from having the shit beat out of them and being raped. I don’t think that there is any minority in this country we have failed so much as transgender people. The statistics are staggering and shameful. I could give a shit less whether some people are uncomfortable with the steps necessary to prevent the rape and assault of other people. I think fiveyearlurker’s post was great, though. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/214 "2016-11-20T04:53:28Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > No, sorry. The purpose of transgender bathroom laws is to prevent transgender women from having the shit beat out of them and being raped. I don’t think that there is any minority in this country we have failed so much as transgender people. The statistics are staggering and shameful. I could give a shit less whether some people are uncomfortable with the steps necessary to prevent the rape and assault of other people. > > I think fiveyearlurker’s post was great, though. Not to mention that if the right wing wasn’t shoving their bigotry and intolerance down peoples’ throats, we wouldn’t have had these issues in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/215 "2016-11-20T12:31:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Having had a week to think about it, I think the key factor was complacency. Everyone was predicting a Clinton victory so a lot of people who supported her (or opposed Trump) in theory didn’t feel any urgency to go out and actually vote for her. > [@doorhinge](#): > > I agree. I believe the actions of the polling organizations and the media outlets suppressed the Democrat vote. _Hillary must have the election in the bag. Everyone says so, so why bother voting?_ This is difficult to confirm. Received wisdom suggests that polling leads are thought to depress turnout on the losing side. I don’t have a cite for this but it’s something I have picked up over the last few election cycles. Interestingly Nate Silver has said this election is the first time he has got into a disagreement with a political campaign(Hillary’s) over not giving her campaign a greater percentage chance of victory. The implication being he was under pressure to increase Hillary’s chances of winning on his site. I assume Hillary’s campaign believed in the received wisdom that campaigns expecting to lose have their turnout depressed. It’s a bugbear of mines that the polls have themselves become a large part of the election news cycle. I realise they are important, but polls have become another obstacle to talking about actual issues. The polls have become the narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/216 "2016-11-20T13:30:05Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Interesting _Harvard Business Review_ essay on how the Dems have misjudged working-class voters: [https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class](https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class) ``` Yeah I read that a few days back and it may well be the best piece written about this election. I hope every single person connected to the Democratic party reads it. ``` ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/217 "2016-11-20T14:20:21Z")
I think the biggest mistake was making the entire campaign about how awful Trump was, while Trump made his entire campaign about what he was going to do for his voters. Living in FL i saw nothing but an endless parade of Hillary ads that were nothing but the latest Trump idiocy that I had already seen repeated ad naseum in every possible media. Every cent she spent convincing people Trump was the worst person ever was completely wasted, it WORKED but people voted for him anyways. “This is what I’m going to do for you” “This is how the things Trump promises are going to fuck you”, that is what the campaign should have been. Nobody needed Hillary to remind us Trump made fun of a cripple or went around grabbing pussies, everyone already fucking knew. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/218 "2016-11-21T00:22:44Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > No, sorry. The purpose of transgender bathroom laws is to prevent transgender women from having the shit beat out of them and being raped. I don’t think that there is any minority in this country we have failed so much as transgender people. The statistics are staggering and shameful. I could give a shit less whether some people are uncomfortable with the steps necessary to prevent the rape and assault of other people. > > I think fiveyearlurker’s post was great, though. Well YOU might not and the people out in Hollywood and behind Hillarys campaign might not, but obviously million of voters did and thats what matters. If Hillary had gone out and actually TALKED to voters she might have learned that. But instead, she sent celebrities. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/219 "2016-11-21T00:24:12Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think the biggest mistake was making the entire campaign about how awful Trump was, while Trump made his entire campaign about what he was going to do for his voters. Living in FL i saw nothing but an endless parade of Hillary ads that were nothing but the latest Trump idiocy that I had already seen repeated ad naseum in every possible media. Every cent she spent convincing people Trump was the worst person ever was completely wasted, it WORKED but people voted for him anyways. “This is what I’m going to do for you” “This is how the things Trump promises are going to fuck you”, that is what the campaign should have been. Nobody needed Hillary to remind us Trump made fun of a cripple or went around grabbing pussies, everyone already fucking knew. Right, you will never win by bashing the other guy. You win by showing how you are better and what things you will change or improve. Which when you get down to it, is alot easier for the person from the outside party. Hillary would have been forced to slam Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/220 "2016-11-21T16:00:08Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The purpose of transgender bathroom laws is to prevent transgender women from having the shit beat out of them and being raped. I don’t think that there is any minority in this country we have failed so much as transgender people. The statistics are staggering and shameful. Could you share the statistics of transgender women who got beaten up and raped because they couldn’t use the ladies’ room? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=12)