# So, where did the Democrats go wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165 "2016-11-09T08:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/241 "2016-11-24T01:58:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You are confusing “deceptive” with “objective”. Suicide rates are objective. No, it depends upon how you examine the population. Example: a population where 1% commit suicide and 99% do not. If a treatment improves the quality of life for the 99%, but not the 1%, then _that is still a net improvement in QOL for the population._ This is why when trained medical researchers, physicians, counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists report that quality of life improves for high majority of the patients, we can conclude that is a net improvement regardless of whether there is no reduction in raw suicide rates. Something which there is no conclusive or even good data to really show one way or the other. You’ve repeatedly declined to give your medical or experiential bona fides for why you believe your judgement on this subject is better than many major medical authorities and bodies around the world, who have examined the evidence and believe that treatment works. Why is that? Why are they all wrong, and you right? The psychologists and psychiatrists I work with don’t seem to have any problems accepting that treatment improves QOL, nor do their licensing, professional, and governing bodies. Your position as you’ve expressed it is that no other metric applies to judging benefit in this case than suicide rates. I’ve asked you before about antidepressants which work but are known to increase suicide rates, and you declined to reply in that instance and moved onto another thread. And remember well when you did the shuck and jive when Even Sven and others tried to get you to admit whether you believe people like me are women? I mean for _shame._ ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/242 "2016-11-24T02:13:05Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > well put, but Democrats have convinced themselves that the trans issue is somehow equivalent to the Civil Rights movement; moral zeal will never let them drop it and they’ll never let reality show them that trans-ism is NOT equivalent to being another skin color (visual and unconcealable) nor are the consequences. > > Sorry, but if one choses to change his gender, there are consequences. When it comes to being male or female, some people need to really learn the whole “grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference” thing. Now this country gets to pay a high price because of the .001% (yes, one thousandth percent) of people who get sex-changes. A self-admitted hater of transgender persons cries crocodile tears over the fact that fellow haters of transgender persons are placed in power due to widespread right-wing bigotry in this country. Wow. I’ve read stranger things on the SDMB, I…guess? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/243 "2016-11-24T11:42:43Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Trump is a counter-puncher. The candidates who attacked Trump were attacked in return. And since Trump views any criticism whatsoever as an “attack”, that justifies him saying anything he wants about anyone else. Which is handy. > [@](#): > > How dare Trump defend himself. :rolleyes: But he wasn’t “defending himself”, was he? Mostly he was just being an oversensitive asshole. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/244 "2016-11-24T12:07:02Z")
its simple: the Democratic Party, under Obama, moreso under his second term than his first (meaning after he was free from the restrains of being re-elected) has become the party of Islam, Socialism, and Transgenders. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/245 "2016-11-24T12:08:00Z")
Identity politics is the short answer. Once the Republicans directly played identity politics, our groups beat their groups. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/246 "2016-11-24T12:14:47Z")
The Democrats also took their eye off the ball during the midterms. They lost big, but didn’t really seem to do anything about it, plus never seemed to realize that the extra black voters Obama brought in only wanted to vote for him and no one else ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/247 "2016-11-24T12:50:57Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > A self-admitted hater of transgender persons cries crocodile tears over the fact that fellow haters of transgender persons are placed in power due to widespread right-wing bigotry in this country. Wow. I’ve read stranger things on the SDMB, I…guess? :smack: my main issues were Trump’s temperament, foreign policy, abortion rights, and stem-cell research. Those are why I didn’t vote for him, tho I wish him luck now. Even for as much as I think violence against self-identified transgenders is wrong, I don’t believe in the idea that gender is something you can just change on the fly. All the arguments for it are based on meta-physical gender studies and even the pseudo-scientific studies have serious flaws. And there comes a point where you have to accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change those you can, and the wisdom to know the difference. I can’t just cut my legs off, get some long prosthetics, and say I’m “trans-tall.” Why can people do that with gender? Also, I still don’t know the difference between a transgender “woman” and a super twink gay guy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/248 "2016-11-24T12:58:02Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > my main issues were Trump’s temperament, foreign policy, abortion rights, and stem-cell research. Those are why I didn’t vote for him, tho I wish him luck now. Even for as much as I think violence against self-identified transgenders is wrong, I don’t believe in the idea that gender is something you can just change on the fly. All the arguments for it are based on meta-physical gender studies and even the pseudo-scientific studies have serious flaws. And there comes a point where you have to accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change those you can, and the wisdom to know the difference. I can’t just cut my legs off, get some long prosthetics, and say I’m “trans-tall.” Why can people do that with gender? Also, I still don’t know the difference between a transgender “woman” and a super twink gay guy. And you think that they’re “repulsive” and “disgusting” (your words) and don’t think it’s bigoted to call them that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/249 "2016-11-24T13:00:16Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > its simple: the Democratic Party, under Obama, moreso under his second term than his first (meaning after he was free from the restrains of being re-elected) has become the party of Islam, Socialism, and Transgenders. Says the guy on record saying bigoted things about Muslims and trans people, and who also apparently has no concept of what socialism is. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/250 "2016-11-24T16:59:47Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Also, I still don’t know the difference between a transgender “woman” and a super twink gay guy. :rolleyes: y’know, on gender issues there is MUCH you do not know… ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/251 "2016-11-24T17:33:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And since Trump views any criticism whatsoever as an “attack”, that justifies him saying anything he wants about anyone else. Which is handy. > > But he wasn’t “defending himself”, was he? Mostly he was just being an oversensitive asshole. If you don’t want Hiroshima, don’t start Pearl Harbor. Trump was defending himself. Trump’s opponents, and the Democrat collective, whined when Trump pushed back. How dare Trump defend himself from Democrat groupthink, and bullying. He’s such an anti-bully bully and you don’t like him. :rolleyes: Hillary, the DNC, Hillary worshipers, and the Democrat collective completely misjudged the voters. Why? Because they prefer not to listen to anyone who didn’t want a Hillary presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/252 "2016-11-24T18:04:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If you don’t want Hiroshima, don’t start Pearl Harbor. More like “If you don’t want Hiroshima, don’t park in Trump’s parking spot.” > [@](#): > > Trump was defending himself. Oh that poor, poor man! Won’t someone think of the billionaires? > [@](#): > > Trump’s opponents, and the Democrat collective, whined when Trump pushed back. How dare Trump defend himself from Democrat groupthink, and bullying. He’s such an anti-bully bully and you don’t like him. :rolleyes: Just like he pushed back against all those people who dared to ask him for the money he owed them, or how he pushed back against that Miss Universe contestant, or how he threatened to push back against all those other women who claimed that he sexually assaulted them. All in self-defense! He’s not an “anti-bully bully”; he’s a regular bully and proud of it. It’s even in his books. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/253 "2016-11-24T18:52:01Z")
Trump bravely pushed a racist and fact free conspiracy theory when Obama committed the terrible transgression against Trump of being a black president. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/254 "2016-11-24T19:34:51Z")
This is not particularly germane…but watching Obama and his bad turkey puns,I couldn’t help but ponder Trump in the same situation. I don’t think he’s made a witty comment in his life…the man has no sense of humor whatsoever (remember the Al Smith dinner fiasco?) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/255 "2016-11-24T23:31:28Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > This is not particularly germane…but watching Obama and his bad turkey puns,I couldn’t help but ponder Trump in the same situation. I don’t think he’s made a witty comment in his life…the man has no sense of humor whatsoever (remember the Al Smith dinner fiasco?) He does seem have a bit of an issue with lightening up. It happens but he seems to have trouble switching it on with the ease of someone used to a spotlight he does not own. Even when delivering his conciliatory Thanksgiving message he did not look relaxed at all. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/256 "2016-11-25T03:51:03Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well I’d like to ask even the transperson, what good is the protection from getting fired from a job if you cant find a job in the first place? What good is protection from being kicked out of your apartment if you dont have money for rent? > > Consider the following: > > Boss: “Hey transperson, your fired.”. > Trans: “For what, because I’m a trans?” > Boss: “No, because this person from India will work for half what I’m paying you”. > > The democrats needed to focus on the economy and creating good paying jobs. Yeah, I think you’re basically right. You know who was good at that kind of economic work? Franklin D. Roosevelt. He didn’t get it all right the first time, nor the second, but he kept trying things. That’s admirable. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/257 "2016-11-25T06:36:04Z")
The scapegoating of trans people seems to ignore that there was a governor’s race where transgender rights were an _explicit_ part of the campaign, and the Republican lost, despite being in a state that Trump won by 4 points. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/258 "2016-11-25T07:46:49Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > The scapegoating of trans people seems to ignore that there was a governor’s race where transgender rights were an _explicit_ part of the campaign, and the Republican lost, despite being in a state that Trump won by 4 points. More like that he could come so close with such sagging approval ratings shows that were it not for the issue, McCrory woulda lost decisively. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/259 "2016-11-25T10:46:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …Oh that poor, poor man! Won’t someone think of the billionaires? (post shortened) _What difference, at this point, does it make?_ - Hillary Clinton The Clintons are worth millions and their influence-peddling foundation is sucking up more bucks every day. It appears that somebody is thinking of the billionaires. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/260 "2016-11-25T11:10:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > _What difference, at this point, does it make?_ > > - Hillary Clinton > > The Clintons are worth millions and their influence-peddling foundation is sucking up more bucks every day. It appears that somebody is thinking of the billionaires. With both Clintons out of office, how much “influence” do they have to peddle? [Charity Watch](https://www.charitywatch.org/ratings-and-metrics/bill-hillary-chelsea-clinton-foundation/478) gives the Clinton Foundation an **A**. Its goals: > [@](#): > > Works to improve global health & wellness, increase opportunity for women & girls, reduce childhood obesity, create economic opportunity & growth, and help communities address the effects of climate change. Strangely, there’s no listing for the Trump Foundation. [Here’s some news!](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-foundation-apparently-admits-to-violating-ban-on-self-dealing-new-filing-to-irs-shows/2016/11/22/893f6508-b0a9-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html) > [@](#): > > President-elect Donald Trump’s charitable foundation has admitted to the Internal Revenue Service that it violated a legal prohibition against “self-dealing,” which bars nonprofit leaders from using their charity’s money to help themselves, their businesses or their families. > > The admission was contained in the Donald J. Trump Foundation’s IRS tax filings for 2015, which were recently posted online at the nonprofit-tracking site GuideStar. A GuideStar spokesman said the forms were uploaded by the Trump Foundation’s law firm, Morgan, Lewis & Bockius. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=14)