# So, where did the Democrats go wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165 "2016-11-09T08:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/61 "2016-11-09T12:25:30Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I canvassed for Hillary just Tuesday morning (but not before). In my anecdotal experience, her CAMPAIGN did a great job – super organized, efficiently made sure I knew exactly what to say and to whom – BUT I was struck at how few volunteers like me there were at the local headquarters. So, another example of the lack of enthusiasm among regular folk – folks inclined to vote for her, but not AMPED about it like they were for Obama. Or you know, like they were AMPED for Bernie. The one who got away. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/62 "2016-11-09T12:37:20Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > Stop it. They lost the presidency to Trump, and failed to take the Senate. It’s a total cluster fuck and disaster. Well, I know it is a catastrof. The most recent tally I saw showed her leading by over 100K. And you know who else rose to power without winning a majority (besides W, that is)? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/63 "2016-11-09T12:56:23Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Well, I know it is a catastrof. The most recent tally I saw showed her leading by over 100K. And you know who else rose to power without winning a majority (besides W, that is)? Well, the popular vote is very close and we won’t know for sure who had more until a few more days when everything is counted. But what we do know is that a very large percentage of votes went to the third-party **libertarian** candidate (you know, the party that wants to basically absolish the government entirely). Gary Johnson received over 4 million votes, which is more than **double** the number of votes that went to third-party candidates in 2012 **combined**. Those certainly aren’t people who wanted a Democrat of any stripe. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/64 "2016-11-09T13:03:47Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Well, the popular vote is very close and we won’t know for sure who had more until a few more days when everything is counted. But what we do know is that a very large percentage of votes went to the third-party **libertarian** candidate (you know, the party that wants to basically absolish the government entirely). Gary Johnson received over 4 million votes, which is more than **double** the number of votes that went to third-party candidates in 2012 **combined**. Those certainly aren’t people who wanted a Democrat of any stripe. The way I understand it, Johnson voters generally split evenly dem/pub when forced to. I certainly knew several Bernie diehards that went for Johnson over Clinton or Stein. Sorry, no cite, but I remember being kinda surprised to when I saw it mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/65 "2016-11-09T13:13:30Z")
Immigration. People, even Latinos and especially African Americans, are fed up with the open borders policy. Trump was the only one who was going to change course. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/66 "2016-11-09T13:17:47Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Immigration. > > People, even Latinos and especially African Americans, are fed up with the open borders policy. Trump was the only one who was going to change course. Are you high? Immigration has PLUNGED among Mexicans in the last eight years, and overall immigration is slower that it was under Bush. Also, deportations SKYROCKETED under Obama, along with border enforcement in general. Please return to this conversation after the drugs wear off. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/67 "2016-11-09T13:19:09Z")
> [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](#): > > Immigration. > > People, even Latinos and especially African Americans, are fed up with the open borders policy. Trump was the only one who was going to change course. Not to mention total failure to address radical Islamic terrorism (the words Hillary and Obama “won’t even say”) and general Islamic apologism. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/68 "2016-11-09T13:25:27Z")
Four years ago, people here prepared a eulogy for the, Republican party, telling me how we needed to be more liberal, accept more liberal policies and just generally be Democrat lights (I can certainly bump that thread). Today, I see that much of the same people refuse to acknowledge that maybe Democrats’ social and economic policies aren’t just repugnant to a majority of people, but harmful to our nation. …Lol, who am I kidding? Democrats obviously didn’t win because of racism. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/69 "2016-11-09T13:34:56Z")
I think another interesting question, which of course we can never know the answer to, is would Senator Clinton have had a better chance than Former Secretary of State Clinton. Think about it. In the Senate, she could have worked to pass legislation and still maintained high visibility. No way to specifically tie her to the Obama administration’s foreign policy. Definitely no controversial private email server. No speeches given to Wall Street. Instead, she would be running as a sitting senator, having comfortably won a third term. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/70 "2016-11-09T14:03:44Z")
So. No love for J. Edgar Comey? ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/71 "2016-11-09T14:19:55Z")
Hillary lost because she and her followers made the mistake of attacking people who supported Trump. Called them stupid, racist and sexist. This action can shame people into shutting up, but it seems the libs don’t understand what “secret” means in secret ballot. They tried to bully and shame people into voting their way. Old saying "A person convince against their will is of the same opinion still’. Now, one of two things is going to happen. The people who have been running things are either going to co-opt Trump into doing things pretty much the way things have always been done, or failing that, attempt to destroy his presidency, much like Carter’s was wrecked. If you see Trump taking a lot of formal Washington insiders into his cabinet, then you assume #1. And as much as I dislike Hillary, I kind of hope Obama gives some kind of blanket pardon to her before he leaves office. Kind of like what Ford did for Nixon. Country doesn’t need to be more split by endless investigations. And if she is guilty of stuff, live with it. Lots of people who are guilt of crimes walk free. Only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad winner, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/72 "2016-11-09T14:20:49Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > This is a joke, right? Some social issues, like marriage equality, have gone mainstream amazingly quickly. Meanwhile, Obama’s avoidance of race-based approaches and statements has been astounding, for all eight years of his presidency. > > As for SJWs, sometimes their tactics are counterproductive. But I don’t see this as anything deeply tied to the Democratic Party. > > The data might show that, had Obama/Hillary/the Dems acted “more black” (whatever that means), a better African-American turnout would have tipped the election to Clinton. I guess not as mainstream as many of us dared to imagine, at least if I understand all my right-wing relatives who found it to be tedious political correctness run amok to assuage the feelings of a bunch of whiners. I will be spending much less time in the presence of said relatives going forward. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/73 "2016-11-09T14:26:27Z")
Reports are leaking out that Clinton was too complacent. She thought Florida was a lock so she didn’t campaign there the last couple of weeks. She did not visit Wisconsin once during the campaign. Trump was in Michigan talking about how trade agreements had destroyed the auto industry while MI Congresspeople had to beg Clinton to campaign there. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/74 "2016-11-09T14:32:29Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Are you high? Immigration has PLUNGED among Mexicans in the last eight years, and overall immigration is slower … Cite? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/75 "2016-11-09T14:40:35Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Cite? It is kind of a technicality: illegal immigration has declined, but not by a whole lot; and they are mestizos, crossing the Mexican border into the US, but it looks like the fraction that is Mexican is giving way to people from other Central American countries. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/76 "2016-11-09T14:46:00Z")
I feel strongly that the DP completely underestimated the economic concerns of middle America. Forget about the Comey e-mail issue…the Wells Fargo scandal resonated with far more people who view Wall Street traders and financial institutions as a problem. Rightly or wrongly, they saw Clinton as being in bed with the wrong groups of people. Economic inequality and the fragility of markets is a real thing to a lot of voters. Immigration? It’s basically an economic issue to many voters. Here in NC, the Dem party chose to make “Repeal HB2” the big selling point on virtually all of their literature. While I strongly support repealing HB2, that’s a pretty divisive issue to use as the linchpin for a campaign. (To many voters, it’s a non-issue, as it seems evident that it will be repealed, heavily modified, or simply struck down.) TLDR: It’s the economy…and HRC ended up on the wrong side. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/77 "2016-11-09T14:49:11Z")
Hillary was always a weak candidate. I remember having arguments on these boards about this way back in the primaries when her favorability numbers were already at alarming levels and her numbers on honesty truly abysmal. I was hoping Biden would jump in and get the nomination and if he had been the candidate I think he would have won comfortably. If not Biden, the Democrats should have built up a youngish centre-left candidate like Obama 2008 as a genuine contender to test whether Hillary was good enough. Instead they just cleared the decks for her. When Trump got the nomination, I thought even she would be able to beat him and for a long time that looked the case. In truth despite his astounding victory, Trump ran a terrible campaign much of the time. However he had one enormous asset: a clear populist message that elites had destroyed America and that he would fight them and make America great again. Hillary neither had a compelling message of her own nor was she able to effectively destroy his message. Her mistake was to spend too much time attacking his racism and sexism and not enough undermining his appeal as a populist businessman. She should have made a dozen ads featuring contractors particularly white male contractors who were screwed by Trump. They should have been prominently featured in her closing rallies. That should have been her closing argument not Machado and Khan. Her big mistake was to take for granted the white working class Democratic base in states like Wisconsin, Michigan and PA and it cost her the election. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/78 "2016-11-09T15:01:05Z")
She had a fucking _five percentage point_ lead two weeks out. Then that FBI guy dropped his bombshell. The decline was gradual, but just enough. She had no effective response. And, of course, we will probably never hear another word about whatever was on Huma Abedin’s computer, unless some agent makes a big noise about how there was nothing there. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/79 "2016-11-09T15:12:14Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > So. No love for J. Edgar Comey? If I were Obama I’d be tempted to have him locked in a room alone with a revolver. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/80 "2016-11-09T15:37:50Z")
The Democratic party anointed establishment candidate Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders and the public found out about it. Even without the polarizing Clinton name this doesn’t sit well with people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=5)