# So, where did the Democrats go wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165 "2016-11-09T08:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/101 "2016-11-09T22:20:52Z")
In hindsight, I’m not sure there was much the Democratic Party could have done differently to win. The mood from a lot of the electorate was for major change and the party in power for 2 terms gets hurt with that kind of mood. Plus, the desire for change seemed to be a rightward shift (though it’s hard to tell with Trump) given that it was the Republican voters who voted for an outsider, while the Democratic voters voted for an insider. If those Independents who wanted Bernie more but didn’t make the effort to vote in the Dem primaries because they didn’t want to change their registration or something else, they only have themselves to blame. If you want to change the system, you have to participate in the system, at least on the primary level What Democrats, both party and voters, need to do going forward is make sure to get out the vote even during mid-terms. The Republicans do much better there and that’s one reason they have control of many governorships and other offices ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/102 "2016-11-09T22:51:19Z")
About the primary, many people questioned the front-loading of the South. The general response was that it captured the desires of black voters. There was also often hints or outright statements that the questioner was a racist for asking why states that the Democrats would never carry had such an early position. Suggesting that open primaries gave a better idea of who would do well in the general was often met with “It’s the Democratic primary for Democrats.” ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/103 "2016-11-09T22:58:13Z")
Just heard NPR’s Robert Siegel talk to Allan Lichtman, professor of history at American University, about his prediction model and the vagaries of polling. His model just asks 13 questions, like “has the party been in power for eight years,” “was there a major foreign policy triumph in the _second_ four years,” etc. Together they account for all electoral wins and losses (not sure how far back in time) for the presidential party in power. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/104 "2016-11-09T23:01:23Z")
Asterion, good point. Shouldn’t we just nominate candidates who are well liked in swing states? If the only goal is to win (rather than, say, represent the electorate as a whole as much as that’s possible), makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/105 "2016-11-09T23:26:54Z")
Hillary has struck a raw nerve with the public for her entire political life. There’s no need to go into detail. The campaign is over. Why the Democrats thought anything would change is beyond me. Her negatives were just too great. Trump isn’t a popular figure either. But he still was the best choice for many voters that disliked Hillary even more. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/106 "2016-11-09T23:31:29Z")
From [Salon](http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/): > [@](#): > > An email recently released by the whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks shows how the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party bear direct responsibility for propelling the bigoted billionaire to the White House. > > In its self-described “pied piper” strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new “mainstream of the Republican Party” in order to try to increase Clinton’s chances of winning. > > The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates “as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right.” Clinton’s camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be “elevated” to “leaders of the pack” and media outlets should be told to “take them seriously.” Playing Chess with all our futures. A colossal blunder, and a strategy that snowballed far out of control of what they expected. If this doesn’t force the DNC to reevaluate their core values, nothing will. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/107 "2016-11-09T23:42:04Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > From [Salon](http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/):Playing Chess with all our futures. A colossal blunder, and a strategy that snowballed far out of control of what they expected. If this doesn’t force the DNC to reevaluate their core values, nothing will. Oh, come on. We all started out hoping the unelectable Trump would be the front runner. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/108 "2016-11-09T23:52:40Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > From [Salon](http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/):Playing Chess with all our futures. A colossal blunder, and a strategy that snowballed far out of control of what they expected. If this doesn’t force the DNC to reevaluate their core values, nothing will. No, again taken out of context as are most crappy wikileaks: The document stated, \*“Clearly most of what is contained in this memo is work the DNC is already doing. This exercise is intended to put those ideas to paper.” The memo articulated a three-point strategy. Point 1 called for forcing “all Republican candidates to lock themselves into extreme conservative positions that will hurt them in a general election.”\* The GOP does the same. Bernie woulda lost also. The smear campaign would have been incredible. But the GOp didnt was to eliminate Bernie, they wanted him kept in for as long as possible, so as to _lock themselves into extreme liberal positions that will hurt them in a general election._ ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/109 "2016-11-10T04:27:40Z")
After sleeping and looking at the updated results, I have to conclude that the Democrats made mistakes, but none of them really led directly to this defeat, although I’d caution that their downballot issues are another problem entirely, with many causes. But this Presidential election is not really their fault beyond “shoulda nominated a better candidate”. The real issue is that the electorate Democrats saw under Obama isn’t the “real” electorate and I don’t think Democrats had really prepared themselves mentally for that fact. They ran as if the “ascendant majority” was an actual thing, when it was only there for Obama at this point. We still have a couple of decades to go before it becomes a real thing that all Democrats can rely on. So for the next few elections Democrats have to appeal to working class white voters, just like they had to do from 1933 to 2008. It’s not even a matter of policies, it’s a matter of priorities. Jobs have to be ahead of climate change, workers have to be ahead of migrants. This is not actually an abandonment of Democratic principles, it just means going back to being the party as it was pre-2008. The working class comes first. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/110 "2016-11-10T05:48:15Z")
Also, superficially, the Democrats didn’t have a good motto. “Stronger Together” wasn’t very rousing, whereas “Make America Great Again” encapsulated several powerful emotions in just 4 words - it communicated that America is no longer great, evoked feelings of sorrow and rage over America losing its greatness, and hope and fervor for America to be great again. (Whether America DID lose its greatness or not is another issue of course. But the Trump motto was one of the best in recent campaign history, in terms of effectiveness.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/111 "2016-11-10T05:53:44Z")
Message was definitely clearer on the Trump side. I don’t know if this was part of the actual Trump campaign, but I started seeing signs that said, “Drain the swamp”, which even made me cheer. That message is deadly and Clinton just didn’t have anything. It had a motto but otherwise there was just no message, no real indication of what she’d do as President. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/112 "2016-11-10T07:34:23Z")
this kind of thing probably helped Trump: this: [Obama again urges Redskins name change](http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2015/11/06/obama-washington-redskins-adidas-tribal-nations-conference/75281088/) leads to this: despite this: > **[New poll finds 9 in 10 Native Americans aren’t offended by Redskins name](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/new-poll-finds-9-in-10-native-americans-arent-offended-by-redskins-name/2016/05/18/3ea11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html)** > > The Washington Post survey indicates few Indians support forcing the NFL team to change its moniker. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/113 "2016-11-10T19:52:37Z")
The list of way the Democrats fucked up is endless. but ultimately it comes down to the fact that the Democrats fucked up by nominating Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/114 "2016-11-10T20:07:10Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > From [Salon](http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/):Playing Chess with all our futures. A colossal blunder, and a strategy that snowballed far out of control of what they expected. If this doesn’t force the DNC to reevaluate their core values, nothing will. Jimminy. What an idiotic idea; right up there with voting in republican primaries to land Trump the nom so they would be easily defeated. Obviously, some weren’t as apt at reverse psychology as they thought. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > Oh, come on. We all started out hoping the unelectable Trump would be the front runner. I think it’s worth repeating that not everyone felt this way. I think it was a horrible idea to play with. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/115 "2016-11-10T20:13:11Z")
Yeah in the end Hillary lost an election which she should have won easily. Forget Obama, if she had gotten the same number of votes in PA, MI and WI as Kerry 12 years ago she would be President-elect. And I don’t really blame her; she did the best within her limitations. What I am still baffled by is why the Democratic establishment cleared the deck for her when her weaknesses were all too clear and why so many Dems, including many posters here, overestimated her political skills right till election day. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/116 "2016-11-10T20:18:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The real issue is that the electorate Democrats saw under Obama isn’t the “real” electorate and I don’t think Democrats had really prepared themselves mentally for that fact. They ran as if the “ascendant majority” was an actual thing, when it was only there for Obama at this point. We still have a couple of decades to go before it becomes a real thing that all Democrats can rely on. Which should have been bloody obvious from looking at the midterms and downballots from 2010-2014. Obama’s voters were HIS. The people actually showing up for other elections were voting R. BTW speaking of “ascendant majority”, if the cohorts of young millennials, ethnic minorities, “creative class” etc. go on to concentrate themselves in a few friendly Metropolitan Areas, that Popular/Electoral vote mismatch is going to be a headache for a number of cycles yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/117 "2016-11-10T20:31:03Z")
The US electorate is extremely polarized now, and very closely split between the two parties. That is both why the Republicans succeed with gerrymandering, and why they need to do it. The keys to success in a presidential election are (1) motivate your base to get out and vote, and (2) don’t split your base. Trump certainly motivated his portion of the Republican base to get out and vote. And the Republican base is extremely cohesive; even with all of Trump’s awful points and lack of bona fides, evangelicals and the like were still willing to vote for him. The Republicans are much better at party unity, despite NeverTrump making the news. I think Hillary’s portion of the Democratic base was as motivated to get out and vote for her. She had a problem though - Bernie had fractured the Democratic base, and neither he nor Hillary could put it back together. The BernieBros had _no_ enthusiasm to vote once Bernie lost the primary - they even rebelled against their candidate’s suggestion that they needed to support Hillary as the Democratic nominee. And yet, Hillary counted on their support. And lost. ---
**Author:** ![john\_b\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@john\_b\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_b_2)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/118 "2016-11-10T20:33:16Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > One thing I think the Dems need to realize is that accusations of racism and sexism should be used in moderation even when they are true as they undoubtedly were with Trump. It was fine to attack him for some of his worst outbursts and I think they hurt him with voters. But then, towards the end of the race it seemed as if attacking Trump for racism and sexism was all the campaign was doing and I suspect many white voters just tuned it out. Incidentally this was not a mistake that the Obama campaign made; they were very careful about talking about racial issues which is part of the reason he won twice with the help of white voters in the Midwest which Hillary lost. > > The basic problem is that many Dem elites live in an identity-politics bubble which is obsessed with issues of race and gender and where all accusations are taken with > > deadly seriousness whereas this stuff just doesn’t resonate as strongly in the wider > culture particularly in non-urban areas. Yes, I agree with all you wrote. The harping on the same old same old pc issues deeply alienated _average_ voters, and I’m using the word average with all due respect. It’s like Hillary was speaking in some kind of code, one only fully understood by affluent voters in woodsy suburbs and the urban rich in high rises (whatever). Also, Mrs. Clinton’s palpable discomfort in public, on television, vs. Trump’s comfortable and confident masculinity sent “messages”. Whether one cares for their meaning is another matter. Trump was bold and spoke his mind, while Clinton came across as somehow unreal, as if reading from a script, telling the voters what _she_ thought they wanted to hear This may all sound superficial and say that in theory it should all be irrelevant: the best candidate should win, the one whose views are closer to those of the American people (etc.). Yes, indeedy, but television is the medium used for communicating with the American people in large numbers, and screw up on the tube, as Hilllary did repeatedly, and you’re toast. In this, Marshall McLuhan was right as to how television works. The Dems got it right with Bill Clinton TV-wise, and again with Barack Obama, stumbled, and stumbled badly, with Hillary Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/119 "2016-11-10T20:47:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. The Rove hate machine would have smeared Sanders so bad it would have been nutso. > > They did it vs Obama, vs Hillary, vs Bill. They will keep on doing it. It works, the gullible bought it. And the Sanderistas happily spread Roves lies for the GOP. I don’t think it would have worked. I think Sanders would have won, and it wouldn’t have been close. You say that the hate machine smearing would have worked, but then go on to cite Obama and Bill Clinton as examples. The thing is it didn’t work on those two, because they have charisma that Hillary doesn’t. Sanders is definitely more charismatic than Hillary. His supporters were more enthusiastic. The socialist/communist/honeymoon in Russia would not have been a big issue given Trump’s Russian ties. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/120 "2016-11-10T21:01:13Z")
Maybe it really does just come down to which candidate is the most charismatic. Other than maybe Nixon, I can’t think of a single winner that was less charismatic than the loser, going at least as far back as FDR. If this is the case then the Democrats failed by not selecting a charismatic candidate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=7)