# So, where did the Democrats go wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165 "2016-11-09T08:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/161 "2016-11-12T15:14:50Z")
> [@KAndre](#): > > …And off on something of a tangent, I have to admit to feeling a bit of hypocrisy from the Trump supporters, who are watching protesters that hate them and their candidate in the street, because of “feels” rather than “facts”. It was fine for the Trump people to go “I don’t care about facts, I like the lies or shit that hasn’t yet better because they feeeeeeeel right.” You all showed these idiots that truth doesn’t matter; you claimed questioning the process was your right; well, look what you accomplished - you’ve managed to get the Democrats their own version of the Tea Party. (post shortened) These protestors are protesting against democracy. A free and open election was held. All sides had their say. Many campaign promises were made. Some events were spun/twisted in order to promote the political biases of both (all?) sides. Votes were cast. The votes were counted, and a winner declared. These protestors reject the results of that free and open election. Some of them chose to reject the results in a violent manner. Do these assholes expect the U.S.A. to hold another election in order to end the violence, protests, and terrorism? Will they then expect repeated elections until the terrorized voters select the candidate of the protestor’s choice. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/162 "2016-11-12T15:21:39Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Yep. > > Lincoln wasn’t a donkey fan. I seem to remember that ol’ Abe liked donkeys. It was those racist, asshole Democrats that Lincoln didn’t approve of. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/163 "2016-11-12T15:34:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Perhaps she believed that she did. Perhaps she was warned of snipers, and being afraid, believed that they could be shot.’ Not even close. \*She _(ol’ Hillary)_ said when she arrived in Bosnia on March 25, 1996, “I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.” But news video footage of her arrival at Tuzla shows Clinton, then the first lady, calmly walking from the rear ramp of a U.S. Air Force plane with her daughter, Chelsea, then 16, at her side. Both Clintons held their heads up and did not appear rushed. The video shows Clinton spending several minutes talking with the group, including an 8-year-old Bosnian girl who presented her with a poem, and later greeting U.S. troops.\* > **[Clinton says she 'misspoke' about sniper fire - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/25/campaign.wrap/index.html)** > > Sen. Hillary Clinton said she "misspoke" last week when she gave a dramatic description of her arrival in Bosnia 12 years ago, recounting a landing under sniper fire. Apparently, 16-year-old Chelsea, and an 8-year-old Bosnian girl, were able to dodge the non-existing sniper fire while enjoying the spectacle that Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/164 "2016-11-12T15:52:03Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > These protestors are protesting against democracy. > > A free and open election was held. All sides had their say. Many campaign promises were made. Some events were spun/twisted in order to promote the political biases of both (all?) sides. Votes were cast. The votes were counted, and a winner declared. > > These protestors reject the results of that free and open election. Some of them chose to reject the results in a violent manner. Do these assholes expect the U.S.A. to hold another election in order to end the violence, protests, and terrorism? Will they then expect repeated elections until the terrorized voters select the candidate of the protestor’s choice. You are saying that there were no protests against the Obama presidency? Or are you saying that it is only okay when your side does it? I’ll completely agree with you about violence and riots, and join you in condemning them, but protests are in fact a part of our democracy. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/165 "2016-11-12T16:22:27Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > These protestors are protesting against democracy. > > A free and open election was held. All sides had their say. Many campaign promises were made. Some events were spun/twisted in order to promote the political biases of both (all?) sides. Votes were cast. The votes were counted, and a winner declared. > > These protestors reject the results of that free and open election. Some of them chose to reject the results in a violent manner. Do these assholes expect the U.S.A. to hold another election in order to end the violence, protests, and terrorism? Will they then expect repeated elections until the terrorized voters select the candidate of the protestor’s choice. Wrong. The protestors are not denying the _results_ of the election (that’s what Trump would have done). They’re protesting the _implications_ of the election. They’re saying, “You may have won, but your odious policies will never be implemented. We will not stand for the harassment and abuse of women and minorities.” ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/166 "2016-11-12T16:52:59Z")
The Election isn’t over yet; the protesters are merely lobbying the members of the Electional college, as is provided for in the Constitution since the Electoral College is supposed to serve as a check on any rash whims of the electorate. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/167 "2016-11-12T17:15:32Z")
Why did Trump win? It is Rural America, screaming “STOP IGNORING US & OUR NEEDS!” And, as everything else has failed, they try to smash the plate glass window, by electing Trump. Seriously. The Mainstream GOP screwed them by promising things they never intended to deliver, & the Democrats, their greatest strength in the cities, couldn’t care less about them. > [@](#): > > **THE ALGEBRA :** > Let REPUBLICANS = **VALUE X PLUS** > Let DEMOCRATS = **VALUE Y PLUS** > Therefore, TRUMP = **VALUE X MINUS** _My conclusion :_ **Trump is a non-Democrat, but, at least to the voters, is an Anti-Republican.** ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/168 "2016-11-12T17:23:19Z")
Strange pseudo math presentations are… strange. Yes you have that feeling. That does not say very much about the actual data that is available. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/169 "2016-11-12T17:36:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You are saying that there were no protests against the Obama presidency? Or are you saying that it is only okay when your side does it? > > I’ll completely agree with you about violence and riots, and join you in condemning them, but protests are in fact a part of our democracy. Did I mention that there were no protests against the Obama Presidency? Maybe you’re thinking of some other poster? Did I say it is only okay when my side (Bernie, then Trump, supporter) does it? You must be using a different internet than I am. These protestors are objecting to the results of a democratic free, and open, election. These protestors reject the results of a democratic free, and open, election. These protestors are protesting democracy. There attempts to terrorize the public won’t fair any better than the attempts by the Occupy thugs, or the only Black Lives Matter morons. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/170 "2016-11-12T17:46:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Did I mention that there were no protests against the Obama Presidency? Maybe you’re thinking of some other poster? > > Did I say it is only okay when my side (Bernie, then Trump, supporter) does it? You must be using a different internet than I am. > > These protestors are objecting to the results of a democratic free, and open, election. These protestors reject the results of a democratic free, and open, election. > > These protestors are protesting democracy. There attempts to terrorize the public won’t fair any better than the attempts by the Occupy thugs, or the only Black Lives Matter morons. Then did you condemn the Tea Party for attempting to terrorize the public? If you did, good for you. I still don’t agree that exercising the first amendments right to peaceful assembly is protesting democracy, but at least you would be consistent, and we could agree to disagree on the finer points of acceptable public discourse. If you did not condemn the Tea Party for their protests, then you are just against democracy when it is not in your favor, and that’s not cool. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/171 "2016-11-12T17:58:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Then did you condemn the Tea Party for attempting to terrorize the public? > > If you did, good for you. I still don’t agree that exercising the first amendments right to peaceful assembly is protesting democracy, but at least you would be consistent, and we could agree to disagree on the finer points of acceptable public discourse. > > If you did not condemn the Tea Party for their protests, then you are just against democracy when it is not in your favor, and that’s not cool. Refresh my memory, when did the Tea Party smash windows, block streets, or attack police officers? Protesting is a 1st Amendment right. These protestors are protesting democracy. What I find especially amusing is that these protestors seem to be terrorizing the residents of states where the majority actually voted for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/172 "2016-11-12T18:05:11Z")
For more data of what was done wrong in not having Trump, I found the discussion of the [538 on the polling and where the divergences and the late deciding was](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fivethirtyeight-gave-trump-a-better-chance-than-almost-anyone-else/), in some interesting graphics, it does not look like the variance is about rural as Bosda shouts about, it is about the MidWest old industrial production areas of the USA that are in long term employment decline by reason of both the technology and the trade. this suggests that Mrs Clinton failure was not only about her lack of charisma, but also the themes that were misfocused, focusing on the cultural politics and not on the working class economics politics. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/173 "2016-11-12T18:13:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Refresh my memory, when did the Tea Party smash windows, block streets, or attack police officers? > > Protesting is a 1st Amendment right. These protestors are protesting democracy. > > What I find especially amusing is that these protestors seem to be terrorizing the residents of states where the majority actually voted for Hillary. If you look just a coupla posts above, you would see that I join with you in condemning any violence. You are talking about protesters, the vast, vast majority of which have been peaceful, as being against democracy. If you want to talk about violence, then don’t talk about protests, talk about violence. Your current rhetoric is mixing them up, as if they are the same thing. If you continue to mix them up, after you have been made aware of the issues with your rhetoric, then I will assume that you are doing so intentionally. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/174 "2016-11-12T19:06:00Z")
At least the protesting is less violent compared to when the Democrats rioted after the first Republican was elected. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/175 "2016-11-12T20:59:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Some Democrats still don’t really understand why the white working class doesn’t like them. This is the right answer and the Democrats are stupid for not taking the easy opportunity to fold them in. There are slight changes to their platform that they could make that would attract a huge number of moderate Republicans and also solidify moderate Democrats. A few tweaks to the platform: 1. Recognize that Islam has been radicalized, and assert a willingness to work with Muslims and non-Muslims to ensure that the religion becomes, once again, a religion of peace. Jesus, the Republicans got a huge burst from that Democrats refused to say “radical Islam”, which, even as a Democrat it pains me the lengths to which we twist ourselves up to try to pretend Islam is exactly the same as Mormonism with regard to violence at this moment in history. 2. Favor affirmative action as a method to include people of all backgrounds. One does not need to walk away from race based affirmative action, which I believe is actually a good thing for everyone. But, it’s also a good thing for everyone to include people from all backgrounds. Poor white kids are sick of being called privileged, which segues into 3… 3. Back off on the labeling. I get what you mean when you say that whites have an inherent privilege. It isn’t wrong, entirely. But, when that poor white family hears how privileged they are, it pisses them off, and they’re not wrong to be pissed off. They are having a hard time, maybe we should help them out too. Maybe we should have some nuance here, and acknowledge this kid’s struggle. Which links in to number 2, because this kid is now not only “privileged” but gets lumped in with all the other actual “privileged” people based solely on the color of his skin; he looks at the kids he has way more in common with socioeconomically who ARE getting a leg up, and is rightfully pissed. He genuinely needs a leg up, and let’s be the party to give it to him. 4. Cool your jets with being offended, and lets stop pretending every instance of offense is legitimate. Some are, no doubt. And those should be minimized, and I’ll be with you there on those. But we love being offended. We fucking LOVE it. Every time a college holds genuine meetings to address the horrible travesty of someone chalking “Trump 2016” on a campus, you lose voters. Hell, you’re losing me, and I’m on your side! Ask yourself if you’re actually offended before making an issue. When someone says “all lives matter”, you might actually have a lot in common with their opinion, so stop shitting on them reflexively. 5. Drop gun control for now. It’s a loser of an issue. It sucks that we can’t have a rational debate on this, but this is where we are. 6. Acknowledge that you have reservations on abortion. You aren’t removing a tonsil. It’s not the same thing, and it’s not just a clump of cells. I’m pro-choice, but I cringe when other people on my side are so cavalier about it. Being pro-life is a very understandable position to take, and when we act like we are 100% right on this issue, it makes us look like the chasm between us and them is way bigger than it is (similar to when they pretend that they have no problems with victims of rape and incest being forced to take a baby to term). Now, yes, in the general scheme of the issues facing America, these are not terribly vital. Compared to global warming and the proper tax structure, these issues are relatively trivial. But, Trump voters, at least the big chunk of non-deplorable ones, said they were scared of Muslims, and sick of PC. They aren’t entirely wrong. Let’s figure out what we are doing wrong and correct it. Or, we become the pure, 100% “right” and powerless party. We ask why they vote against their economic self interest, and the answer appears to be that no one votes based on economic issues, but every day issues like these. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/176 "2016-11-12T21:13:23Z")
[Read this piece](http://www.hoover.org/research/why-trump-won), Democrats (and yes a conservative wrote it. Time to stop only reading things that fit your echo chamber): > [@](#): > > In other words, even as Obama left the Democrats with ideological and political detritus, he also had established an electoral calculus built on his own transformative identity that neither had coattails nor was transferrable to other candidates. Indeed, his hard-left positions on redistribution, social issues, sanctuary cities, amnesty, foreign policy, and spending would likely doom candidates other than himself who embraced them. > > The Bernie Sanders candidacy was the natural response, on the left, to Obama’s ideological presidency. But the cranky socialist septuagenarian mesmerized primary voters on platitudes that would have proven disastrous in a general election—before meekly whining about Clinton sabotage and then endorsing the ticket. What then has the Democratic Party become other than a hard left and elite progressive force, which without Obama’s personal appeal to bloc-voting minorities, resonates with only about 40 percent of the country? > > The Democratic Party is now neither a centrist nor a coalition party. Instead, it finds itself at a dead-end: **had Hillary Clinton emulated her husband’s pragmatic politics of the 1990s, she would have never won the nomination—even though she would have had a far better chance of winning the general election.** ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/177 "2016-11-12T21:20:04Z")
Ms. Clinton’s lead, by the way, currently reports as larger than would fit in the city of Albuquerque and could very well end at half a percentage point in the final tally. So where the Ds went wrong was obviously complacency and failure to properly target strategic states. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/178 "2016-11-12T21:20:59Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Ms. Clinton’s lead, by the way, currently reports as larger than would fit in the city of Albuquerque and could very well end at half a percentage point in the final tally. So where the Ds went wrong was obviously complacency and failure to properly target strategic states. We should stop thinking about it as “targeting strategic states” and start thinking about it as “appealing to people”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/179 "2016-11-12T21:25:26Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We should stop thinking about it as “targeting strategic states” and start thinking about it as “appealing to people”. She had appeal to nearly 600K (0.45%) more people. They were just not strategically located. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165/180 "2016-11-12T21:28:38Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > She had appeal to nearly 600K (0.45%) more people. They were just not strategically located. Right. She didn’t appeal to enough people. Those people are largely outside of urban areas. They voted for Trump. Many are racist assholes, we aren’t going to reach them, and we don’t want to. Most aren’t. Targeting them is opportunistic. Appeal to them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-did-the-democrats-go-wrong/771165.md?page=10)