# So where do 70 foot freak waves come from. Other ships sunk? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 18, 2005, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843 "2005-04-18T03:39:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/21 "2005-04-19T06:27:51Z")
> [@Agent Cooper](#): > > rouge |= rogue post #10 > [@flight](#): > > So rouge waves happen when you get a rogue wave with a red tide? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ficer67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Ficer67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ficer67)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/22 "2005-04-19T06:40:02Z")
I would not be surprised if there are many reports of rogue waves over the next few months. We all remember the Tsunami that flooded India right? Well that earthquake caused the diameter of the earth to shrink by a small amount. But, that could be enough to send ripples throughout the world’s oceans. These ripples could be rather large… ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/23 "2005-04-19T08:05:04Z")
> [@Faith is Good](#): > > I saw two of the survivors interviewed tonight on O’Reilly and they said that it wasn’t just one or two waves, but _hours_ of fifty and sixty foot waves with a few even bigger waves thrown into the mix. It raises a couple of important questions: > > a. How is it possible to have so many abnormally large waves. > > b. How big would a boat have to be to survive that? Would Geraldo’s 70 foot sloop have been history? > > c. Wasn’t that cruise ship in a busy shipping area so you would think that other ships would have been battered or worse lost. a. I don’t know. I think they are probably just caused by all the usual things but more so. Big seas have been sinking ships for millenia b. Size is not relevant. Seaworthiness is. A small tough well found yacht could survive them, albeit by being bobbed around like a cork. A few years ago there was concern that some very large bulk carriers were at risk because they could span across two very large waves and break in half. Whether that ever actually occurred is a debatable point, but nonetheless my point is that size doesn’t matter. c. Yes. In fact I may even have read of some, though there are enough of these sorts of incidents that I may be confusing one incident with another. Merchant ships don’t make nearly the fuss that cruise ships do about these things because they are professionals and don’t have a bunch of inexperienced passengers on board. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/24 "2005-04-19T08:06:38Z")
Sorry, to clarify, other ships were I think in the area. I don’t mean any were lost or badly battered. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/25 "2005-04-19T11:10:54Z")
> [@](#): > > c. Yes. In fact I may even have read of some, though there are enough of these sorts of incidents that I may be confusing one incident with another. Merchant ships don’t make nearly the fuss that cruise ships do about these things because they are professionals and don’t have a bunch of inexperienced passengers on board. To be honest, merchies don’t get much choice in the matter. They routinely sail into weather they have no business being in. Truth is, the bottom line ($$$$) will cause ship owners and charterers to order their ships to take the most direct route to the next load or discharge port - storm or no storm. ISM was suppose to change all that, and contains language to the effect that the master has ultimate responsibility in this regard, and can’t be ordered into such conditions. Yeah, that’ll fix it. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > b. How big would a boat have to be to survive that? Would Geraldo’s 70 foot sloop have been history? Small vessels can and do survive such conditions. As \*\*Princhester \*\* said - it’s about seaworthiness, not size. Remember the lone sailor in the small sailboat in the _Perfect Storm_ that the Air National Guard was trying to rescue? He and his vessel survived the storm, to be picked up the next day by a passing merchant vessel. His boat may have been damaged and disabled, but it survived some extraordinary conditions that night. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/26 "2005-04-19T11:31:47Z")
> [@Scruloose](#): > > To be honest, merchies don’t get much choice in the matter. They routinely sail into weather they have no business being in. Truth is, the bottom line ($$$$) will cause ship owners and charterers to order their ships to take the most direct route to the next load or discharge port - storm or no storm. Not in my experience. In my experience, cruise ship captains will go far out of their way to avoid high seas and even rain - sailing around storms - or near the edges if they can’t avoid it completely. Far better for the bottom line for them to have passengers who had a great time in the sun and will return and tell all their friends than have a ship full of people who will never cruise again, and will discourage their friends from cruising. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/27 "2005-04-19T11:33:37Z")
Never mind, yep, bottom line MERCHIEs will sail into almost anything…cruise ships will avoid if possible. Misread you, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/28 "2005-04-19T11:45:55Z")
> [@Scruloose](#): > > ISM was suppose to change all that, and contains language to the effect that the master has ultimate responsibility in this regard, and can’t be ordered into such conditions. Yeah, that’ll fix it. :rolleyes: What’s ISM? ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/29 "2005-04-19T11:54:36Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > What’s ISM? Sorry - ISM, International Safety Management. The International Maritime Organization’s convention dealing with Safety Management in shipping. [http://www.imo.org/HumanElement/mainframe.asp?topic\_id=182](http://www.imo.org/HumanElement/mainframe.asp?topic_id=182) ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/30 "2005-04-19T12:04:46Z")
Sorry again - ISM is a code, vice convention. [/self nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/31 "2005-04-19T13:07:38Z")
Thanks, **scruloose**! ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/32 "2005-04-19T13:16:16Z")
Do these waves just break in open sea, or do they crash inland, somewhere, eventually. Also, FWIW, I believe a rouge is worth two points. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/33 "2005-04-19T13:54:38Z")
:smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/34 "2005-04-19T19:49:45Z")
I don’t think this is a case of a rogue wave. As anyone who’s spent anytime on a small vessel in a large body of water can tell you, not all waves are created equal. When rough weather hits, it isn’t a steady beat of big wave - big wave - big wave. It’s more of a case where all of the waves are pretty big, but once every few minutes there comes a wave that just happens to have the right wavelength to make it really big. Then, not as common, but on average about once an hour, the daddy wave comes, that not only has the perfect wavelength, but must have had it for a longer time or something allowing it to be even bigger. What you don’t hear about are the waves that have been cancelled out by the wavelengths and pittered out. From my understanding, the storm they were in was ongoing, contrary to the news story. With 20 to 30 foot seas. Occasionaly a fifty footer would swing by. And, if they are to believed, a 70 footer too. I’d say 70 is a little extreme for 30 foot seas, but I’d venture to guess it would be more possible with 40 foot seas. One thing for sure, It’d suck to be on the boat. I sail, and heavy seas can occasionaly get me feeling queasy if I can’t see the horizon. It’s hard to see the horizon in a big floating hotel. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/35 "2005-04-19T23:09:58Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Do these waves just break in open sea, or do they crash inland, somewhere, eventually. Given enough room, they’ll die out. Otherwise, they’ll interact with something in one of several ways listed below. Once a wind generated wave leaves the generating area, it becomes a swell. (wave and swell are not interchangeable terms) They can travel pretty far. They generally don’t “break” in deep water like they do near shoal water. The larger waves I’ve encountered will “spill” at their tops when in deep water. While they have been pretty steep, I’ve never seen them truly “break” in open water. As others have pointed out, they’re pretty much mountains that you ride up and down. Once swells reach a shoal area, it will either a. become larger and more pronounced (ground swell) or, b. break (rage sea). IIRC, waves or swells start looking to truly “break” when the depth of water approaches the wave height, but much of that depends on angles, bottom types, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/36 "2005-04-19T23:17:34Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Also, FWIW, I believe a rouge is worth two points. No, a [rouge](http://www.canada.com/sports/football/cfl/rules3.html) is one point - a safety is two. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/37 "2005-04-19T23:28:29Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > \>snip\< > > b. A few years ago there was concern that some very large bulk carriers were at risk because they could span across two very large waves and break in half. Whether that ever actually occurred is a debatable point, but nonetheless my point is that size doesn’t matter. In the [Big Blow](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Storm_of_1913) of 1913, one of the 19 ships that foundered (either the _Argus_ or the Hydrus\*\*) Did just that - and it was actually witnessed by the Captain of another ship fighting the storm - The bow and stern were caught on different waves, and the ship (IIRC fully loaded w/either ore or coal) just ‘crumbled like an egg shell.’ and disappeared. An interesting quote on the ‘Big Blow’, from Helen Keller, who was trapped in a Cleveland Hotel during the storm: > [@](#): > > “I knew it was storming before I was told. The rooms, the corridors, everywhere within this building vibrates with the power of the storm outside. The storm waves, like sound waves or the waves of the wireless, will not be denied by stone walls and plate glass windows.” Five of the ships lost during this storm have never been found. One of them is the _Hydrus_ - so that may be the one I’m referring to. - The two ships were sister ships, and they both sank in the same lake, on the same day - plus I read about this when I was about ten, originally. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/38 "2005-04-20T00:34:54Z")
> [@Ficer67](#): > > I would not be surprised if there are many reports of rogue waves over the next few months. We all remember the Tsunami that flooded India right? Well that earthquake caused the diameter of the earth to shrink by a small amount. But, that could be enough to send ripples throughout the world’s oceans. These ripples could be rather large… That doesn’t even make any sense. First of all the tsunami IS those ripples you are talking about. Second, rogue waves are storm waves created by wind, not seismic activity, and finally, the Earth didn’t shrink. IIRC, big ocean swells are more dangerous for large ships than smaller craft. A large tanker or container ship can get lifted up at the bow and stern by the peaks of the swells. It can’t support it’s own weight and cracks in the middle like a fat guy sitting on a crappy table. A smaller craft just bobs harmlessly up and down. (basically as lawoot just described) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/39 "2016-12-14T15:01:44Z")
Bumped. A record-breaking wave (62 feet tall) was just registered in the North Atlantic: [http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/europe/record-wave-north-atlantic/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/europe/record-wave-north-atlantic/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843/40 "2016-12-14T15:10:36Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Bumped. > > A record-breaking wave (62 feet tall) was just registered in the North Atlantic: [http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/europe/record-wave-north-atlantic/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/europe/record-wave-north-atlantic/index.html) The article says a buoy measured the wave height. How does it work? Is it tightly moored so that it is always submerged, and can then measure water pressure as the peak and trough of the wave pass overhead? Does it float freely and use GPS to measure changes in its altitude? Something else? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-do-70-foot-freak-waves-come-from-other-ships-sunk/299843.md?page=3)