# So where is the lazy American worker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-is-the-lazy-american-worker/605129 "2011-12-05T14:19:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-is-the-lazy-american-worker/605129/41 "2011-12-08T05:26:12Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I don’t believe this. Cite? Here let me help you. Americans have the 36th highest life expectancy by country. > **[List of countries by life expectancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy)** > > This list of countries and territories by life expectancy provides a comprehensive list of countries alongside their respective life expectancy figures. The data is differentiated by sex, presenting life expectancies for males, females, and a combined average. In addition to sovereign nations, the list encompasses several non-sovereign entities and territories. The figures serve as an indicator of the quality of healthcare in the respective countries and are influenced by various factors, inc... Now all you have to do is prove that 35 countries have higher life expectancies than the U.S. ONLY because of crime and car accidents. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-is-the-lazy-american-worker/605129/42 "2011-12-08T07:16:57Z")
The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 made it easier for the people who own and run America to import cheap labor. The The North American Free Trade Agreement of 1994 made it easier for the oligarchy to export good jobs. The fact that Democratic presidents signed both makes it difficult for the Democratic Party to be believable in finding credible solutions. This is one of the reasons white male blue collar workers, who have seen their incomes decline the most, usually vote Republican. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-is-the-lazy-american-worker/605129/43 "2011-12-08T18:55:07Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I don’t believe this. Cite? This comes from a book by Robert L. Ohsfeldt (Texas A&M) and John E. Schneider (University of Iowa) called The Business of Health. You can look at the chart [here](http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/us-vs-europe-life-expectancy-and-cancer.html) but the actual data is found only in the book from what I can tell. Life expectancy is a messy statistic to use to measure health care since the populations of the different countries are so differently ethnically. I think the US benefits from having so many Hispanics who have a longer life expectancy than Anglos. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-is-the-lazy-american-worker/605129/44 "2011-12-08T19:54:45Z")
You claimed: > [@puddleglum](#): > > This has had a benefit though, in that if you adjust for car accidents and crime the US has the longest life expectancy in the world, so you could say we are being paid in healthy years instead of money. Your cite says: > [@](#): > > and b) standardized life expectancies which are adjusted for the effects of premature death resulting from non-health-related fatal injuries. That does not mean “adjusted for crime and car accidents”, though those would be included in “premature death from non-health related fatal injuries”. So I could stop there because what you claimed is not demonstrated by your chart, you would need a new chart which ONLY adjusts for **CRIME** and **CAR ACCIDENTS**. Here let me list some non health related fatal injuries that aren’t car accidents or crime that vary wildly by country: -War -Work related accidents -natural disaster So your data does not back up your specific claim. But in general It is to laugh to say that it is only car accidents and murders keeping the U.S. from having the longest life expectancy compared to the millions of people who never go to the doctor and die early because they cannot afford healthcare compared to other first world countries with affordable or universal healthcare compared to the insanity of the U.S. healthcare system. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-is-the-lazy-american-worker/605129/45 "2011-12-08T19:58:31Z")
I thought this comment on your chart was interesting as well, because apparently the data used to arrive at that chart is suspect: > [@](#): > > According to “OECD Economic Surveys: United States 2008”, p. 137: > “It has been claimed (Ohsfeld and Schneider, 2006) that adjusting for the higher death rate from accident or injury in the United States over 1980-99 than the OECD average would increase US life expectancy at birth from 18th of of 29 OECD countries to the highest. In fact, what the panel regression estimated by these authors shows is that predicted life expectancy at birth based on US GDP per capita and OECD average death rates from these causes is the highest in the OECD. The adjustment for the gap in injury death rates between the United States and OECD average alone only increases life expectancy at birth marginally, from 19th on average among 29 countries over 1980-99 to 17th. Hence, the high ranking of adjusted life expectancy mainly reflects high US GDP per capita, not the effects of unusually high death rates from accident and injury.” > > In other words, the figures in Table 1-5 are not U.S. life expectancy adjusted for fatal injuries, but rather a model that assumes that both the relationship of life expectancy to per capita GDP and injuries in the U.S. follow OECD trends. > > That is - they are giving the U.S. credit for having the same basic life expectancy as other other high GDP OECD countries, when in fact it is markedly lower. > > Check it out for yourself, their report is at: > [http://www.aei.org/docLib/9780844742403.pdf](http://www.aei.org/docLib/9780844742403.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-is-the-lazy-american-worker/605129/46 "2011-12-08T20:16:25Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > You claimed: > Your cite says: > > That does not mean “adjusted for crime and car accidents”, though those would be included in “premature death from non-health related fatal injuries”. So I could stop there because what you claimed is not demonstrated by your chart, you would need a new chart which ONLY adjusts for **CRIME** and **CAR ACCIDENTS**. Here let me list some non health related fatal injuries that aren’t car accidents or crime that vary wildly by country: > > -War > -Work related accidents > -natural disaster > > So your data does not back up your specific claim. But in general It is to laugh to say that it is only car accidents and murders keeping the U.S. from having the longest life expectancy compared to the millions of people who never go to the doctor and die early because they cannot afford healthcare compared to other first world countries with affordable or universal healthcare compared to the insanity of the U.S. healthcare system. The dataset the book was based on was from 1980-1995, there were not enough people dying in wars to make a significant difference. Car accidents and murders are the two largest contributors to premature death not due to illness. To say that the data did not back up the claim because I did not list eathquakes and logging accidents is pedantic. If their really were millions of people dying early due to a lack it would be easy to pick up in the data. But the data does not show this, the US has the best five year survival rates for most cancers, has very good results for survival heart attack, and survival from stroke. This is despite the fact that the US had the highest smoking rate in the world for fifty years until the mid 1980s. [See this study by Preston and Yo(pdf)](http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1012&context=psc_working_papers&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dlife%2Bexpectancy%2Bat%2Bage%2B50%2Bdifferent%2Bcountries%26sourceid%3Die7%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft%3A%2A%3AIE-SearchBox%26ie%3D%26oe%3D#search=%22life%20expectancy%20age%2050%20different%20countries%22) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-is-the-lazy-american-worker/605129.md?page=2)