# So Where \[U\]ARE\[/U\] Those WMD's? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690 "2003-04-01T13:08:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/21 "2003-04-01T15:21:02Z")
It’s impossible to do the latter. ---
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/22 "2003-04-01T15:23:24Z")
**John** : The inspectors had between november 27th 2002 until the start of the war; hardly YEARS… ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/23 "2003-04-01T15:27:50Z")
How many times have we heard “Wolf!” And every time, there’s no WMD. Now we’re starting to hear that they’ve been transported across the border to Syria. And that Iran must halt its attempts to acquire weapons of mass destructions, and Pakistan must stop exporting weapons of mass destruction. It’s gonna take a long time, cost lotsa bucks, and kill lotsa people to find that fucking wolf. At some point, it may occur to all of the countries on GWB’s shit list that the only way out is to take out the U.S. altogether. So it’s no longer “mutually assured destruction” and peace, it’s “kill the other fucker first”. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/24 "2003-04-01T15:48:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Philster \* > \*\*Didn’t you know you could wave a magic wand and make mustard gas and other agents vanish? > > You mean you can’t make it vanish…you have to put it somewhere like a bunker or buried in a vault? > > Oh, well then why doesn’t someone just point to a bunker where it’s buried? That’s the problem. When the Iraqis had the weapons, they never denied having them, and it was no big secret. > > When they agreed to disarm, they also happened to kick out anyone who was there to document what they were doing with the stuff. > > You can’t just toss the stuff in the trash, or run it down a garbage disposal, so then they should be able to point to a series of bunker or something! > > Just think fo the effort in burying nuclear waste, as an example. Now imagine if the USA agreed to get rid of all it’s nuclear reactor waste, right now. Then, we toss out anyone supervising the disposal of the waste. Then, seven years later, the inspectors come back and say “Hey, where’d you put all the waste?” and we answer “We destroyed it”. > > Um…no. That doesn’t cut it. > > You don’t get rid of an arsenal of chemical/bio weapons and just claim you don’t have it. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/25 "2003-04-01T16:18:05Z")
Randy: Maybe I was a bit unclear. The inspectors have been in and out of Iraq every since 1991. I don’t know the exact dates, but I’m sure if added up all the time, it would come to “years”. But even if we only count the latest inspecting effort, then let’s give the troops at least 4 months before we start raving about “where are the WOMs”. And remember that the SOLE purpose of the inpsectors was to look for weapons. The troops have other more important tasks to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/26 "2003-04-01T16:19:08Z")
Oops. WOMs should’ve been WMDs. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/27 "2003-04-01T16:22:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*How many times have we heard “Wolf!” > > And every time, there’s no WMD. > > Now we’re starting to hear that they’ve been transported across the border to Syria. And that Iran must halt its attempts to acquire weapons of mass destructions, and Pakistan must stop exporting weapons of mass destruction. > > It’s gonna take a long time, cost lotsa bucks, and kill lotsa people to find that fucking wolf. > > At some point, it may occur to all of the countries on GWB’s shit list that the only way out is to take out the U.S. altogether. > > So it’s no longer “mutually assured destruction” and peace, it’s “kill the other fucker first”. \*\* I couldn’t agree more. I’m truly frightened by the hints that Syria may be hiding Iraq’s WMDs. If we used them as a pretext to invade Iraq, what’s to stop us from using them again as another pretext to invade Syria? I certainly wouldn’t put it past this administration to try it. After all, Rumsfeld is already claiming that they’re sending arms across the border, and that they will be “held accountable” So, after Iraq is reduced to rubble, we’ll go after Syria, and then Iran… Scary stuff indeed. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/28 "2003-04-01T16:22:49Z")
pentagon Official reply when he was asked why he was so sure Saddam had WMD: “we kept the receipts” … 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/29 "2003-04-01T16:29:00Z")
**John** : _…“then let’s give the troops at least 4 months before we start raving about “where are the WOMs”.”_ I agree that it’s premature to conclude that WMDs of some kind won’t be found. OTOH, I haven’t noticed anyone “raving” in this thread. The OP was colorful in the manner of **elucidator** , but it was not, to my mind, an _elucirave_ (if I may coin an expression). And if **Randy** or someone else was “raving” I must have missed it. I may seem to making too much out of a single word, but I find that words such as “raving” and “shrill” are often cast about loosely, on and off these boards, by way of discrediting opinion on superficial grounds. IIRC, the inspectors left Iraq in 1998–so we’re talking about a hiatus of some duration. ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/30 "2003-04-01T16:29:22Z")
**John** : _…“then let’s give the troops at least 4 months before we start raving about “where are the WOMs”.”_ I agree that it’s premature to conclude that WMDs of some kind won’t be found. OTOH, I haven’t noticed anyone “raving” in this thread. The OP was colorful in the manner of **elucidator** , and arguably premature (as some have suggested). But it was not, to my mind, an _elucirave_ (if I may coin an expression). And if **Randy** or someone else was “raving” I must have missed it. I may seem to making too much out of a single word, but I find that words such as “raving” and “shrill” are often cast about loosely, on and off these boards, by way of discrediting opinion on superficial grounds. IIRC, the inspectors left Iraq in 1998–so we’re talking about a hiatus of some duration. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/31 "2003-04-01T16:58:14Z")
Oh, Iraq is on the record as claiming to have produced over -ahem- 10,000 tons (not a typo) and thousands of gallons of such things as: VX Trichothecenes Aflatoxin Sarins Mustard Gases Gangrene gas Ricin Botulinum Anthrax others And they cannot account for any of it. Again, they claimed these in excess of 10,000 tons and hundreds of gallons of some and thousands of gallons of others. Do you think they under reported or over reported… and with these amounts does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![AZCowboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/97f17d/32.png) [@AZCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZCowboy)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/32 "2003-04-01T17:09:33Z")
> [@](#): > > _ **Shodan** wrote:_ > “The experts concluded that, based on the data provided by Iraq, the two declared variants of the Al Samoud 2 missile wer capable of exceeding 150 kilometers in range. This missile system is therefore proscribed for Iraq.” - Hans Blix, reported in the Washington Post, Feb. 14, 2003. > > Powell mentioned that the biological agent production facilities were mobile, and I imagine the Iraqis are eager not to allow them to fall into allied hands. > > The agreement of the cease-fire was that Iraq would destroy the WMD, and prove that this had been done. They refused to do the latter, and there is no reason to believe they did the former. > [@](#): > > \*Hans Blix, [Report to the UNSC](http://www.un.org/apps/news/infocusnewsiraq.asp?NewsID=414&sID=6), 3/7/03 > \* > Several inspections have taken place at declared and undeclared sites in relation to mobile production facilities. Food testing mobile laboratories and mobile workshops have been seen, as well as large containers with seed processing equipment. No evidence of proscribed activities has so far been found. > … > While during our meetings in Baghdad, the Iraqi side tried to persuade us that the Al Samoud 2 missiles they have declared fall within the permissible range set by the Security Council, the calculations of an international panel of experts led us to the opposite conclusion. **Iraq has since accepted that these missiles and associated items be destroyed and has started the process of destruction under our supervision**. The destruction undertaken constitutes a substantial measure of disarmament - indeed, the first since the middle of the 1990s. We are not watching the breaking of toothpicks. Lethal weapons are being destroyed. > … > Until today, 34 Al Samoud 2 missiles, including 4 training missiles, 2 combat warheads, 1 launcher and 5 engines have been destroyed under UNMOVIC supervision. [Emphasis added] There is evidence that Iraq was providing proof of the destruction of banned weapons. What evidence is there to the contrary? You picked an odd example to make your point. For clarification, simply having the al Samouds was not a violation of UNSC Resolution 1441, but failing to cooperate with their destruction would have been. Using dated quotes from UNSC inspectors to imply that the UN knew Iraq to be in violation of 1441 (yet still failed to act) is unproductive to the debate, IMHO. Further, it is beating a horse that may not be dead, but it ain’t about to get up and walk around. On preview, **Philster** , cite? For example, when you say “And they cannot account for any of it,” let’s take VX as an example. At the end of GW1, Iraq claim to have remaining stock of 412.5 tons of VX in stock. 411 tons were destroyed under UNSCOM, only 1.5 tons remains unaccounted for. While that is plenty to remain concerned, it highlights the exaggeration of your claim. ---
**Author:** ![RandySpears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RandySpears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandySpears)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/33 "2003-04-01T17:15:02Z")
**John:** As **Elu** pointed out, there was hardly any continuity between the inspections work before and after the 4-years when no inspections were allowed. So saying the inspectors (and thereby implying Hans Blix et al)have had years is simply not correct. They got a couple of months. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/34 "2003-04-01T17:25:06Z")
When Iraq accepted the terms of the 1991 Gulf War cease-fire agreement, it agreed to destroy all its weapons of mass destruction. But after a senior Iraqi official defected in 1995, the nation admitted to producing biological and chemical agents that could be used as weapons of mass destruction. Here is a look at the chemical and biological agents Iraq claims to have manufactured in the past. > **[CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos](https://www.cnn.com)** > > View the latest news and breaking news today for U.S., world, weather, entertainment, politics and health at CNN.com. Details of chem/bio agents and amounts (under Iraq…Weapons) [http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/weapons/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/weapons/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![jkusters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jkusters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkusters)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/35 "2003-04-01T17:27:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bibliovore \* > **So, after Iraq is reduced to rubble, we’ll go after Syria, and then Iran…** [super-cynical-mode] Making the world safe for Christianity… [/super-cynical-mode] JOhn. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/36 "2003-04-01T17:42:20Z")
if you want a good reason to believe that Saddam has WMD–look at his famous 12,000 page report in which he documented “ALL” of Iraq’s weapons. The Iraqis swore that they had fully and completely listed EVERYTHING they had.Half the world, and blind-man Blix, fell for the lies. Golly, gee whiz, what’s this then?–all of a sudden, a few weeks later they “accidently” discovered a few barrels of toxins. Funny 'bout that–the closer the US Army got to Iraq, the more forbidden weapons Saddam “accidently” discovers. If any intelligent person actually believes that Saddam’s hands are clean, I can’t figure out how. For decades every western country sold him all the raw materials, and (as elfje noted above) we have the receipts. So we are supposed to believe that he flushed it all down the toilet, because Blix politely asked him to? After 12000 pages of lies, I have a feeling that Saddam might not be the most honest guy around. We know he paid for the raw materials–if he cant prove he destroyed them, basic logic says he must still have them. And those chemical protection suits found in captured Iraqi army bases are a pretty good sign that somebody is planning to wear them. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/37 "2003-04-01T17:52:05Z")
Oh be patient. Wait another week. 2 weeks tops. You’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/38 "2003-04-01T18:00:05Z")
“We don’t have any weapons of mass destruction. My wife …Morgan Fairchild…yeah, that’s the ticket…my wife got rid of them.” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/39 "2003-04-01T18:11:00Z")
Even if we do find Iraq’s hidden cache of WMDs, will we find the authorization from the UN Security Council for a military action? Or how about some evidence that Saddam was planning to use those WMDs to attack the United States? Gonna take more than two weeks to find those, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690/40 "2003-04-01T18:14:02Z")
Wow, and Saddam was clearly right on the brink of bombing us with his yet-to-exist WMD’s, huh? Look at how all his neighbors were covered with WMD’s as soon as we attacked… Like those chemical suits, which Saddam was clearly about to pack into a Al Saud, and launch at Kuwait. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-where-u-are-u-those-wmds/165690.md?page=3)