# So who are these people that "can't afford" ACA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090 "2016-01-14T00:09:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/41 "2016-01-14T23:36:45Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Institutionalized Extortion. I am curious if you regard Socialable Security in the same fashion. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/42 "2016-01-14T23:39:15Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think the insurance companies use any loophole in the Affordable Care Act to pay less. I’ve noticed that my insurance company doesn’t pay the full physician’s charges. The physician used to eat this, but now they charge me for it. And that’s a problem. The companies should eat the cost, not the doctors. And the doctors shouldn’t pass it on to you. But its not Obama’s fault, the system was broken before he got here. > [@sleestak](#): > > What the ACA did was take options that people wanted away from them while not really fixing any of the core problems. > > Also, I find it interesting that you know more about other peoples financial situations than the people who are actually in those situations. Bad options are hardly options. If I gave you a choice between being stabbed in the left leg or the right leg, those don’t mean you have options. The old system offered bad plans that were cheap and didn’t cover you. If cognitive dissonance made people like those because they were cheap, that’s their fault. They didn’t cover you and it was correct that the ACA took those away. You wouldn’t consider it freedom if restaurants had simply ill-ness inducing food versus lethal ones. And I never said I knew more about their financial situation, but I know about what the ACA did. I said it was unfortunate that he had to pay more, but the fault lies with the insurance company and the system, not Obama. What the ACA did was essentially shed light on the practice of terrible plans that didn’t cover people. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/43 "2016-01-15T00:33:31Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Sincere question from a non-american who doesn’t know anything about how the system actually operates there . Considering that sooner or later you’re going to get very ill, how do you believe that you would ever end up losing out? > > If you get terminal cancer without insurance, I take it the bills would be picked up by you as an individual, up to the point where you can no longer afford them and it’s game over. What happens if you get cancer when you have insurance? Doesn’t the insurance policy have to cover them till there’s no further treatment, or is there some get out clause they can invoke so you’re out of cover? > > Because if they do have to cover you, and you do accept that you will get seriously ill sooner or later, surely it has to work out in your favour eventually? I’m pretty sure I can die without medical assistance, and I have already lost out. Some years ago I had these brown mole-looking things on me. They were itchy, sometimes bled unexpectedly, and were just a mess. So I went to the dr. Once they were adjudged neither cancerous nor precancerous, then it became “cosmetic” and not covered by my insurance. Now, had I not been paying whatever it was, let’s say $300/month, for insurance, I would have had the money to get all these things taken off medically, but I was, so I didn’t. So I fretted about it for awhile–and let’s note, at the time I had an FSA, which should have worked, but it turned out that I couldn’t use it for anything that wasn’t covered, and “cosmetic” wasn’t covered. So I cut the things off myself, with an X-acto knife and continued contributing to the insurance executives’ golden parachutes. I have been paying for Medicare with every single paycheck I have ever gotten in my life, so I think I’ve paid in enough to cover my final illness. Especially since, based on my family history, it’s likely to be a quick one. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/44 "2016-01-15T00:35:37Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The companies should eat the cost, not the doctors. And the doctors shouldn’t pass it on to you. Why, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/45 "2016-01-15T00:37:12Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why, exactly? Because that’s what people who aren’t plutocrats or their shills want. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/46 "2016-01-15T00:39:44Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Because that’s what people who aren’t plutocrats or their shills want. So the people should get whatever they want, at someone else’s expense? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/47 "2016-01-15T02:16:16Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I don’t think so–the website I linked to didn’t ask about income so I don’t think subsidies were factored in. My point was that because there was an alternative for low-income people private insurers had competition and had to set rates lower if they wanted to keep a slice of the business. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/48 "2016-01-15T02:24:12Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why, exactly? I believe the physicians and hospitals should eat it. An acquaintance asked for an annotated bill from a hospital stay. $25 boxes of facial tissues and $5 per tablet aspirin. Those people make money off of sick people, and folks whose only other choice is to die. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/49 "2016-01-15T02:32:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > My point was that because there was an alternative for low-income people private insurers had competition and had to set rates lower if they wanted to keep a slice of the business. So now everyone has to have insurance and they can raise their prices? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/50 "2016-01-15T02:33:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > An acquaintance asked for an annotated bill from a hospital stay. $25 boxes of facial tissues and $5 per tablet aspirin. > > Those people make money off of sick people, and folks whose only other choice is to die. No one is going to die from lack of facial tissues or aspirin. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/51 "2016-01-15T02:39:32Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No one is going to die from lack of facial tissues or aspirin. :rolleyes: Aspirin is taken to prevent vascular incidents. 🙂 An example of how hospitals financially screw people. If they charge you $25 to blow your nose, what do you imagine it costs to be saved from death? There is also the pharmaceutical fellow who bought an AIDS drug that sold for $10 a tablet and marked it up to $500. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/52 "2016-01-15T03:36:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Aspirin is taken to prevent vascular incidents. 🙂 > > An example of how hospitals financially screw people. If they charge you $25 to blow your nose, what do you imagine it costs to be saved from death? > > There is also the pharmaceutical fellow who bought an AIDS drug that sold for $10 a tablet and marked it up to $500. One could argue that this is just Free Market healthcare at work. Not me. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/53 "2016-01-15T04:22:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I feel better already! 🙂 That’ll be $78.50. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/54 "2016-01-15T04:50:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Aspirin is taken to prevent vascular incidents. 🙂 You can also buy aspirin at the Dollar Store. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/55 "2016-01-15T06:28:28Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I am curious if you regard Socialable Security in the same fashion. > 🙂 Good question. I’ve never given it much thought, as SS was around long before I came into this world. It’s different than health insurance, however, in that with SS I have to contributed, but I’m also promised a benefit. Health insurance is something I’m forced to purchase, but have no desire or expectation of ever getting a benefit from. (I don’t have any. I pay the penalty instead. I don’t usually go to doctors, and if I am “compelled” to, pay cash.) I guess if forced to give an answer, I’d say, “Yeah. Social Security is Wealth Redistribution through Coercion/Theft”. I’ve also abandoned all hope of ever seeing a single cent of my contribution over the years to Social Security returned. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/56 "2016-01-15T06:50:24Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Good question. > > I’ve never given it much thought, as SS was around long before I came into this world. It’s different than health insurance, however, in that with SS I have to contributed, but I’m also promised a benefit. Health insurance is something I’m forced to purchase, but have no desire or expectation of ever getting a benefit from. (I don’t have any. I pay the penalty instead. I don’t usually go to doctors, and if I am “compelled” to, pay cash.) > > I guess if forced to give an answer, I’d say, “Yeah. Social Security is Wealth Redistribution through Coercion/Theft”. > > I’ve also abandoned all hope of ever seeing a single cent of my contribution over the years to Social Security returned. OK, oh invulnerable one, all of a sudden you have a heart attack, wind up in the ER, and find your life will be saved if you get a stent of two. How much cash do you have on you? I’m guessing not quite enough. Do you have it done, and go bankrupt to stick your bill on the rest of us, or do you tell them to let you die? I discovered one day through chance that I was this close to a stroke. As it turned out my treatment was pretty cheap, but it didn’t have to be. If your retina detaches you can go blind in one eye without reasonably expensive treatment. Good idea if you don’t have the cash? Saying your health insurance policy is to pay cash or die isn’t much of a policy. As for Social Security there are plenty of people in this country who could never save enough to support themselves. Some might be stupid, but some might be just barely holding on. What would you plan to do with them? Soylent green? Send them to the streets? Our failed 401K experiment has shown that plenty of people aren’t going to save voluntarily. And you will see Social Security money unless your pals in Congress give you the shaft. Getting it back on track isn’t hard. Reagan did it, and did a great job. It can be a conservative position also. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/57 "2016-01-15T06:56:30Z")
My daughter can’t afford the lowest, shittiest insurance available. She earns 10 dollars an hour and the lowest she could get was 300 a month and that was solely for catastrophic care. She cannot afford 300 a month after rent, utilities, and car insurance, much less gas and food. Her job is in the next town over, as is her school so there is no taking the bus. Insurance is required by law, and gas is needed to get her there. There are no extravagances here, she just can’t afford it and still pay for her basic living expenses. We were really excited about the ACA because she has hormone issues that need addressing. Even with that 300 going for insurance it wouldn’t cover monitoring and meds for her condition. Oh well, right? Maybe when she’s out of school things will improve and she can afford it. She signed up a few weeks back with some church charity clinic but they say it could be a full year before she’s seen by a doctor after intake. Intake appointments are 3-6 months wait too, so it may be a year and a half before she gets seen the first time. She’d be in good shape likely if our state had expanded Tenncare to cover low wage workers. At least she earns under the max so she didn’t have to pay the penalty last year. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/58 "2016-01-15T10:25:43Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > So now everyone has to have insurance and they can raise their prices? In Indiana, the state-subsidized premiums did not go up, it is a program that pre-dates the ACA. The ACA private insurance has to convince people to pay more for their coverage for them to switch, or lower their prices to be competitive in Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/59 "2016-01-15T11:51:44Z")
A family member lost her job last year and has not yet found a new one. Last year, she had some income and savings before the job loss. She qualified to buy on the market and also qualified for a subsidy. She paid about $150 a month plus deductible and co-pays but managed to make it work. This year, she tells me that a person with “zero” income does not qualify for any subsidy and she must pay the full cost of any plan. She’s also pretty much depleted all her reserves. She’s in Texas, so does not qualify for Medicaid since Texas refused the expansion. (She wouldn’t qualify anyway under the current rules.) The cheapest plan she has found is about $425 a month- hard to pay that when unemployed. She’s also diabetic. She takes insulin and needs glucometer refill stuff like strips and lancets. She says she has enough to get through the month and a little longer, but after that… She said she will stop testing and taking her meds. She says if she has no meds, there would be no point to testing. Obviously, she’s upset about this turn of events. But if she gets to end stage renal disease and needs dialysis, she can qualify for a state or federal plan. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090/60 "2016-01-15T12:29:17Z")
^ And that’s a clear example of the stupidity of our current jacked-up health system. Society won’t pay for a diabetic’s daily medication and supplies, but IS willing to let such a person’s kidney’s be destroyed and THEN pay for a lifetime of dialysis which is FAR more expensive than daily insulin, and WILL come out of the collective treasury. A glaring penny wise and pound foolish position. It’s stupid. It’s cruel. It’s why the US needs to become civilized and provide for all citizens like a real country should. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-are-these-people-that-cant-afford-aca/743090.md?page=4)