# So who, besides Lewis Carroll, was Jack the Ripper? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 23, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822 "2014-07-23T05:18:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/1 "2014-07-23T05:18:57Z")
[Do anagrams in Lewis Carroll’s poems prove he was Jack the Ripper?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1236/do-anagrams-in-lewis-carrolls-poems-prove-he-was-jack-the-ripper), originally published March 7, 1997, re-published on-line on or about July 22, 2014: Mr. Traugott asks: > [@A. H. Traugott](#): > > I heard there is a book purporting that Lewis Carroll and a close associate were actually Jack the Ripper. Supposedly done by a scholar, the book examined Carroll’s “Jabberwocky,” \< . . . \> Okay, I’ll bite. Who was supposedly Lewis Carroll’s “close associate”? Did the two of them allegedly take turns being Jack the Ripper, or was it fully a team effort? Or was one of them the successor to the other? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/2 "2014-07-23T09:01:24Z")
Thomas Vere Bayne. From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > “_Jack the Ripper, Light-Hearted Friend_ is a 1996 book by Richard Wallace in which Wallace proposed a theory that British author Lewis Carroll, whose real name was Charles L. Dodgson (1832–1898), and his colleague _ **Thomas Vere Bayne** _ (1829–1908) were responsible for the Jack the Ripper murders.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/3 "2014-07-23T18:20:53Z")
Everybody knows that Jack the Ripper was really Edward Devere, XVIIth Earl of Oxford. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/4 "2014-07-23T19:03:44Z")
So who was Thomas Vere Bayne? Was he some notable or otherwise well-known person? Another math lecturer at the college? A buddy of Dodgson? A fellow photographer hobbyist? I never heard of him. ETA: Okay, I’ll go read the above-linked wiki now. ETA-2: Oops, above link no good. [Fixed.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper,_Light-Hearted_Friend) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/5 "2014-07-23T19:40:24Z")
Did anything happen to the candidates after November, 1888, when Mary Jane Kelly was the last victim? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/6 "2014-07-23T20:07:59Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > ETA-2: Oops, above link no good. [Fixed.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper,_Light-Hearted_Friend) Ouch, sorry 'bout that. No morning coffee = mangled that link like Annie Chapman’s abdomen. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/7 "2014-07-23T20:28:14Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did anything happen to the candidates after November, 1888, when Mary Jane Kelly was the last victim? Do you mean these two “suspects,” or any of the suspects usually bandied about? [Montague John Druitt](http://www.casebook.org/suspects/druitt.html) committed suicide in the winter of 1888. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/8 "2014-07-23T20:42:37Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Do you mean these two “suspects,” or any of the suspects usually bandied about? > > [Montague John Druitt](http://www.casebook.org/suspects/druitt.html) committed suicide in the winter of 1888. Any of them. Whacking himself within a month of the last killing is good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/9 "2014-07-23T23:53:12Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So who, besides Lewis Carroll, was Jack the Ripper? Nobody has been ruled out, including you. Don’t whine about not being alive in 1888; there is such a thing as reincarnation, you know. Or you could have kept youthful by drinking the blood of women who aren’t remotely virgins. The font of all grisly Ripper knowledge: [www.casebook.org](http://www.casebook.org) I enjoy their takedown of Patricia Cornwell because that phony has begun to believe her own press that claims she’s a real forensic person. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/10 "2014-07-24T00:52:56Z")
My favourite was Winston Churchill’s father. It’s a variation on the old ‘Royals and FreeMasons’ rubbish, and is supposedly the reason why Winston Churchill quit the Masons fairly early on. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/11 "2014-07-24T01:04:33Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Nobody has been ruled out, including you. Don’t whine about not being alive in 1888; there is such a thing as reincarnation, you know. Or you could have kept youthful by drinking the blood of women who aren’t remotely virgins. > > The font of all grisly Ripper knowledge: [www.casebook.org](http://www.casebook.org) I enjoy their takedown of Patricia Cornwell because that phony has begun to believe her own press that claims she’s a real forensic person. Could you please link to that part of the website? I’d love to read it. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/12 "2014-07-24T01:06:18Z")
I had a professor in college who asserted that the character Peter Walsh in Virginia Woolf’s _Mrs. Dalloway_ was Jack the Ripper. I forget who the character was based on in real life. I think it was Woolf’s first cousin James Kenneth Stephen. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/13 "2014-07-24T01:41:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Could you please link to that part of the website? I’d love to read it. [http://casebook.org/dissertations/dst-pamandsickert.html](http://casebook.org/dissertations/dst-pamandsickert.html) FTR, Cornwell’s time in the Virginia ME’s office was spent as a technical writer and a computer analyst. She’s about as much a forensics expert as I am. ETA: And this: [Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Patricia Cornwell Delivers a Lecture at the University of Tennessee at Knoxville](http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/medine-cornwell.html) ---
**Author:** ![grue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b9bd4f/32.png) [@grue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grue)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/14 "2014-07-24T01:46:22Z")
Obviously it was Keyser Söze. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/15 "2014-07-24T02:10:40Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Nobody has been ruled out, including you. Don’t whine about not being alive in 1888; there is such a thing as reincarnation, you know. Or you could have kept youthful by drinking the blood of women who aren’t remotely virgins. That’s ridiculous, everyone knows they must be virgins for that to work. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/16 "2014-07-24T03:26:41Z")
It’s a little-known form of magick/magique/magigh that is based on the Law of Dissimilarity. It never really caught on, requiring as it does drinking the blood of worn-out old whores. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/17 "2014-07-28T17:40:57Z")
Dr. John Leslie Stevenson, I’d say: [Time After Time (1979 film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_After_Time_(1979_film)) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/18 "2014-07-28T19:03:35Z")
Don’t forget Prince Albert Victor, the Duke of Clarence. (The oldest son of the future King Edward VII) ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/19 "2014-07-28T19:04:58Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Dr. John Leslie Stevenson, I’d say: [Time After Time (1979 film) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_After_Time_(1979_film)) That movie any good? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822/20 "2014-07-28T19:15:09Z")
In a very real sense, is not each and every one of us truly Jack the Ripper? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-besides-lewis-carroll-was-jack-the-ripper/693822.md?page=2)