I thought that Cypher wasn’t actually in the Matrix when he was chatting with Agent Smith. Instead, it was a visualization of the conversation he was having with the Agent. Cypher was still in the real world, communicating by computer with the Agent.
From some of the posts in this thread, it seems to me that some people hate the film for its popularity as much as its flaws. After all, we never see 70+ post “So who didn’t like “Wild Wild West”?” threads three years after it came out 
Contimplates starting a “So who didn’t like “Wild Wild West”?” thread just to see how many replies it’d get…
I liked it. I think Keanu’s terrible in some roles, and just fine in others. The Matrix was one where I thought he did a good job. That, along with Parenthood and Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure were roles that he seemed relaxed and non-forced in.
True, in a way. But only because its popularity plus the fact that I’m a geek (and thus know many geeks) means I have to constantly hear about how deep and philosophical and life-changing this silly movie is. So because I hear abotu it all the time, I’m constantly put in a situation where I have to analyze this claim. And where I constantly have to be told that I only don’t love it because I either didn’t get it or because I’m just trying to be cool and rag on on a popular movie. The possibility that I just don’t think the movie is that good or deep doesn’t seem to be plausible.
I watched a “Wild Wild West” episode for the first time since it originally aired in the 1960s. My sisters and I used to watch it regularly. I was pleased at the very high production quality, good sets, very good photography. I was surprised that the acting of the intellectual sidekick (who was my favorite, of course) was mediocre, and that macho James West was really playing some sly games with the other characters and the camera. Definitely worth watching a few more, again.
As for “The Matrix”, nope, Debaser, I “understood” it perfectly well. I was bored. Here are sci-fi movies, off the top of my head, that I thought better: Star Wars, Dark City, Solaris, Forbidden Planet, Five Million Years to Earth, Timeslip, Time Runner, Terminator, Terminator 2, The Empire Strikes Back, Lost in Space, The Eighth Day, Dr. Strangelove, THX 1138, Soylent Green, First Contact, Our Man Flint, Alien, Total Recall, Galaxy Quest, etc.
That one put me to sleep.
The WWW TV show was pretty good, we used to watch reruns on A&E in college a few years ago(had to run to the dorms after classes to get there in time)
Ooooh. My hackles just rose. I loathe this argument. But I won’t hijack this thread further.
It was bad and cliched. However, and this is a big however, the visuals were quite entertaining and not to be missed. Sound was good too.
Ermm, I’m pretty sure they’re talking about the movie, which I wish I’d never seen.
I think it was more along the lines that they were freedom fighters (or terrorists take your pick) and the policemen and other casualties were acceptable collateral damage in the fight to free the matrix.
I recognize all the complaints logged so far about this movie, except for boring, I don’t see that. The plot was rather generic, an amalgam of the anime, Hong Kong action film, and cyber noir source material to come before it (like Harry Potter was for sorcery, occult, and mythology, which I didn’t like for that very reason), and their were holes a plenty (how the hell did Cypher get to that restaurant, and why didn’t they load up a Harrier or something more substantial than “guns, lots of guns.”?) But I’m still a big fan. It brought Hong Kong style wire fights to the Hollywood mainstream, and even thought the plot was full of holes I thought it was a good ride none-the-less. Who out there, without prior knowledge, expected Neo to wake up in vat with a giant coax in the back of his head after taking the red pill?
It’s a shame that some people mistake it for Plato, but what are you going to do, some people read ancient philosophy and some people read wrestling magazines.
Just Some Guy said:
1.) I am more offended at your comparison to Nazis and the implication that my comments somehow affiliate my point of view to genocide. Once again hyperbole rears it’s ugly head. Nothing like comparing the REAL deaths of 6 million + people to a movie where people get killed in a future time.
2.) Actually, I do not understand how it is morally objectionable. Perhaps if you watch the movie again and pay attention to the actual story you will not be so confused. The movie does not take place in 1999 but rather an unknown number of CENTURIES later. A world that has experienced a technological revolution, a war versus the man-made technology, a presumed nuclear holocaust that left the machines to create power sources after the sky was scorched, and finally potentially hundreds of years of human devaluation as ‘batteries’. This is a bleak world, one of little hope. What psyche do you expect after generations of this type of life and/or history considering that the guards would attempt to stop them from saving Morpheus and/or are potential Agents?
Next time try a little harder to separate reality from the movies, mmmm’kay? :wally
Mikahw said:
You are correct, more than one got shot in the ‘mini-gun’ scene however the order of events went like this: (as near as I can recall, I haven’t seen it in awhile)
Tough. It’s not my fault you said that it was okay to kill people who’s lives by your judgement wouldn’t ammount to anything.
“Potential”. They weren’t. There were literally a million ways for them to get access, cause a diversion, and not kill innocent people. Should they just kill everyone in the city because they’re a “potential” agent as well?
None of that even remotely justifies killing people.
Perched upon his Ivory Tower, Just Some Guy belched forth:
Please do show me where I said it was okay to kill people who’s lives by MY judgement wouldn’t amount to anything. I stated, clearly, that is the moral code of the characters and only that given the plot as presented in the movie I can understand that position.
Your blathering pie hole spilling out inflammatory vile such as Nazis and Columbine only demonstrates your ignorance.
On second thought, since you cannot do the above, let’s try a little exercise…
Movie
flips card over
Reality
flips card over
Movie
flips card over
Reality
See, they are different. This may be a shock but no innocent people were killed in the making of this film. However, I am certain that you are not exhibiting the slightest bit of hypocrisy for I know that all of the Sci-Fi or other genre movies you do enjoy include no deaths, or only deaths to people who were deserving based upon your own personal moral code. For you certainly are incapable of suspending or separating your own beliefs from those of others - real or inside the matrix.
Please… what a :wally
More pointless rambling from Just Some Guy:
I am even further convinced you have not actually watched this movie. Your errors are staggering…
1.) The opening sequence of the movie established that whether under guise of some “government authority” or simply as “Agents”, civil service agencies (police) took orders from Agents. There is clearly some form of collusion present, whether the police are aware of the true nature of Agent Smith or not.
2.) When Neo attempted to escape his office building, he was grabbed up by Agents AND police - supports the collusion as presented in my first point.
3.) During Neo’s training, the “Lady in the Red Dress” program established the need to fear everyone in the Matrix. They do not call for killing everyone, only be alert - everyone can be an Agent.
4.) The capture of Morpheus was the result of joint Agent and police efforts - see # 1 again.
5.) Post-lobby gun-battle we see an Agent assuming a Police officer, thereby causing a tidy-bowl flush of that “innocent person” from the Matrix.
Simply put, the officers in the lobby of the building holding the Agents and Morpheus were not as “innocent” as you so valiantly defend. It is perfectly reasonable for the characters to expect the police who have attempted to KILL THEM PREVIOUSLY to continue to resist their efforts to rescue Morpheus.
Finally, beyond this one scene which I feel I have established pretty convincingly that the victims were hardly innocent, where else in the movie was the murder of innocents equivalent to Nazi death camps and a system of genocide? Let’s cut the last part, where else in the movie does a “good guy” character murder innocent people?
MeanJoe
Was Cypher Justified? was a thread I was involved in a year or more ago(can’t remeber exactly). It pretty much covers much of the questionable morality issues displayed on the part of the rebels. A search of the particular forum I linked you too, may yeild a couple of more threads covering the issue of Rebel/Agent morality.
I must admit, I am a Matrix junkie. Usually fanboys are divided into two factions, being pro-rebel and pro-A.I., much like the way Star Wars fanboys have the love/hate relationship with the prequels.
**SPOILER
The final movie is just speculation. I have heard that in the end the Agents and the Rebels form an alliance, keep in mind thats just speculation I have heard and I can’t verify it. I do(at least, I think I do) know quite a bit about the second movie which comes out in May. There are a few new character like Link and Niobi. We also get to see the Zion in the second film. There is a pair of silver haired twins who are basically deleted programs with free rein in the Matrix. They can morph through solid objects. They are bodyguards to a villianous millionaire. These twins are very well dressed and ruthless. Apparently, there is a sword fight that takes place in the movie, I’m not fully sure who fights the twins. I believe Morpheus and Trinity fight them at one point in time, Neo takes on the pair later. At one point each combantant weilds two weapons and the effects are supposed to be nothing short of an SFX masterpiece. There is also a fight scene between Neo and multiple Agent Smiths. There is a highway chase scene at the end. The Agents steal identities with cops to gain ground on the fleeing rebels, while the twins are morphing through the back window of the rebels vehicle to recapture what the rebels have taken from them.
End Spoiler**
I don’t want to spoil the whole thing and I realize I kinda hijacked this thread. Just thought someone reading might like to know. And in case you couldn’t tell, I loved the movie.