# So who first came up with idea that "There is more evidence for Jesus than Ceasar" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403 "2008-10-17T16:52:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/21 "2008-10-18T11:49:32Z")
Doesn’t the Bible quote Jesus as asaying"Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar’s"? The writer apparently heard of Ceasar. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/22 "2008-10-18T20:09:45Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Doesn’t the Bible quote Jesus as asaying"Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar’s"? The writer apparently heard of Ceasar. > > Monavis It depends on which Caesar one is referencing. The “Caesar” on the coin would have been Augustus Caesar, not Julius. Of course, Augustus would never have become emperor, nor have acquired the surname Caesar, had he not been adopted by a certain Julius Caesar… ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/23 "2008-10-18T20:38:12Z")
Too late to edit my own post–I’ve got my Caesars mixed up. Tiberius would have been emperor at the time of Christ’s death. Augustus, of course, was emperor at the time of Christ’s birth (as the accounts of the Nativity in the Gospels make clear). Sorry for the imperial fail. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/24 "2008-10-18T23:02:03Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Doesn’t the Bible quote Jesus as asaying"Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar’s"? The writer apparently heard of Ceasar. Indeed, it was the gospel at mass this morning. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/25 "2008-10-19T03:46:12Z")
> [@Gotterfunken](#): > > Isn’t Diderot being sarcastic? I’ve always thought he was an atheist, or at least a skeptic in regard to Christianity. > > The way I read that quote, Diderot is saying that there IS no logic that would lead on to conclude that Christ was resurrected, and he’s trying to demonstrate how silly it would be to argue that. That’s my reading of it, too; the authore seems to be commenting on how the average member of the public just accepts matter-of-factly the miraculous part of the Jesus story derives from holding as axiomatic premise (“as certain as 2+2=4”) the part about his (and Caesar’s) mere existence to begin with, and ironically comments “What logic!” ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/26 "2008-10-19T10:50:22Z")
> [@Gotterfunken](#): > > It depends on which Caesar one is referencing. The “Caesar” on the coin would have been Augustus Caesar, not Julius. > > Of course, Augustus would never have become emperor, nor have acquired the surname Caesar, had he not been adopted by a certain Julius Caesar… Sorry the OP didn’t specify any certain Caesar. So you are correct, one would have to know what caesar he wanted to verify. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/27 "2008-10-19T20:30:31Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Sorry the OP didn’t specify any certain Caesar. So you are correct, one would have to know what caesar he wanted to verify. I think it was implicit in the statement “There is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than Caesar”, that it was referring to Julius Ceasar. I think whenever “Caesar” is referred to as a historical person in popular culture, with no context to imply which of the Caesars is being referred to, it is assumed to be Julius Ceasar. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/28 "2015-04-08T15:46:49Z")
How much evidence is there for Ceaser after all. Most of what we know are either from documents written supposedly contemporaneously, with the earliest surviving copy being several hundred years later or from people who lived centuries after his death like Plutrach, Cassius Dio or Suetonius? Cues zombies swimming in the Rubicon. And the Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/29 "2015-04-08T16:23:24Z")
I’ve never heard anyone claim to have ever talked with Caesar, but I’m heard many, many people say that Jesus has spoken to them, that he lives in their hearts, has comforted them, and even helped them do this task or that. Seems like a slam dunk to me. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/30 "2015-04-08T17:09:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > How much evidence is there for Ceaser after all. Well, there are all those coins with his noggin or cognomen on them minted in his lifetime. Only, he spelled it Caesar… ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/31 "2015-04-08T20:10:00Z")
Plus statues. And he wrote a book. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/32 "2015-04-08T21:37:53Z")
Wasn’t it Ceaser who said “I came, I saw, I stopped”? ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/33 "2015-04-08T21:46:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wasn’t it Ceaser who said “I came, I saw, I stopped”? Or was that his brother, Desister? I think it was Caesar who said, “I came, I saw, I created a collaborative website.” ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/34 "2015-04-08T22:13:14Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I guess that would make sense. The original soundbite might have been “There is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than Socrates”, which is a seems a fairly defensible position. . We have at least three contemporary authors who knew Socrates and wrote about him fairly extensively. There isn’t really any equivalent source for Jesus. All the writings we have are second hand, and Paul is the only one whose lifespan overlapped with Jesus’s. (FWIW, I don’t really doubt the historical Jesus’s existence, but I think its pretty clear the evidence for Socrates dwarfs that of Jesus). > [@EdwardLost](#): > > ``` > I've never heard anyone claim to have ever talked with Caesar, > > ``` Obviously you’re unfamiliar with the reporting of noted journalist Perry White ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/35 "2015-04-09T02:05:29Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > …journalist Perry White No evidence that Great Caesar’s ghost ever talked back. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/36 "2015-04-09T16:24:57Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Plus statues. And he wrote a book. When does the earliest surviving copy of his \*Commentaries \*date from. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/37 "2015-04-09T21:42:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > When does the earliest surviving copy of his \*Commentaries \*date from. The 9th Century. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/38 "2015-04-09T22:42:34Z")
There’s even more evidence for L. Ron Hubbard, though! The problem is, _what does that evidence say about him?_ ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/39 "2015-04-09T22:50:17Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > We have at least three contemporary authors who knew Socrates and wrote about him fairly extensively. > > There isn’t really any equivalent source for Jesus. All the writings we have are second hand, and Paul is the only one whose lifespan overlapped with Jesus’s. > > (FWIW, I don’t really doubt the historical Jesus’s existence, but I think its pretty clear the evidence for Socrates dwarfs that of Jesus). Er, I’ll give you “most.” I don’t think we can say for certain that the Gospel of Mark \*wasn’t \*written by a contemporary, or that Luke _didn’t_ really do his research. (Although Luke did, as Larry Gonick would put it, make up all the dialogue.) ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403/40 "2015-04-10T00:59:36Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > No evidence that Great Caesar’s ghost ever talked back. [Au contraire.](http://www.tvguide.com/index.php/tvshows/the-adventures-of-superman/episode-5-season-3/great-caesars-ghost/100017/) > [@Giles](#): > > The trouble is that, based on other empirical evidence, it seems far more likely that a general will cross a river with his army that that a dead person will come back to life after 3 days buried in a tomb. nitpick - Although everyone talks about 3 days, it’s something less than 38 hours. People can be ‘dead’ that long and rejoin the ranks of the living. That probably wouldn’t be the tack that a Christian apologist would want to take, but I thought it was worth mentioning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-first-came-up-with-idea-that-there-is-more-evidence-for-jesus-than-ceasar/468403.md?page=3)