# So who has been injured by a texter? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883 "2018-03-20T13:33:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/81 "2018-03-22T14:46:49Z")
**Morgenstern,** are you now doubting that you can break a wrist bone? [Apparently the Mayo Clinic thinks it’s possible](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/broken-wrist-broken-hand/symptoms-causes/syc-20353169). Perhaps you with your superior knowledge should enlighten them as to the unlikelihood this phenomena exists. It’s also fairly well known that poorly healing wrist fractures can lead to disability. You seem to have a chronic problem with understanding normal conversational English. “Snapped off a wrist bone” is clearly “I severely injured a wrist bone leading to disability” and “charged with assault” could just as easily be “the police officer recommended he be charged with assault”. Do you analyse and tear-down every conversation you have in real life like you do here? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/82 "2018-03-22T14:50:24Z")
There are a lot of “Ifs” in that statement. Bumping into someone isn’t the same as making them “fly and crash.” One side of the equation doesn’t fit the other. BTW, If I was standing at a bus stop, I’d be extra attentive, knowing that I could end up in a traffic lane if I was careless. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/83 "2018-03-22T14:57:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Do you analyse and tear-down every conversation you have in real life like you do here? You know, you can cook bullshit any why you want to. You can even serve it on fine plates, but you just can’t make the stink stop. And that’s the problem here, too much stink. Only in her case, I don’t think she’s a _psuedologist_, I think she’s confused about what the cops said and did. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/84 "2018-03-22T15:31:01Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Assault just seems like a serious charge for a “preventable accident.” True. I dunno, is there such a thing as “negligent assault”? Maybe negligent injury. I’m not a lawyer, that’s why when I need real legal advice or information in real life I hire an actual lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/85 "2018-03-22T15:32:57Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You know, you can cook bullshit any why you want to. You can even serve it on fine plates, but you just can’t make the stink stop. And that’s the problem here, too much stink. I don’t think a smallish person standing at a bus stop minding her own business being knocked off her feet by a much larger person running into her is bullshit. It’s entirely plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/86 "2018-03-22T15:38:32Z")
Negligence requires application of the “but for” test. \*But for \*her inattentiveness, would she have been injured? Then, does that inattentiveness mitigate the defendants calculability? And cops arresting for a misdemeanor arrest is a stretch. They can generally arrest for felonies not committed in their presence, but, generally, not for misdemeanors unless they witness them. And I doubt an unintentional bumping amounts to a felonious act anywhere in America. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/87 "2018-03-22T15:46:42Z")
culpability, not calculability. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/88 "2018-03-22T16:09:45Z")
As someone who deals with the laws in New Jersey on a daily basis I can without hesitation say there is no way criminal charges could be filed in my jurisdiction. I’m in a different county so I don’t know the prosecutors there but I know it would be laughed out of court in mine. I take that back, it wouldn’t get past the sergeant to get to a prosecutor. > [@Chronos](#): > > It wouldn’t be hard at all to prove, if they made an effort to do so. Texts have timestamps on them. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Actually, with modern automotive datalog systems it is possible to find the exact time of the crash from accelerometers or anomalies from impaired systems. And if A-GPS is enabled on the phone, it is possible to link a location down to a few meters to when the text was sent. So, provided the information can be subpoenaed from the phone’s owner and/or carrier, it would be possible to determine if someone was texting proximate to the time of the accident. > > The reality, of course, is that we aren’t going to stop people from texting or streaming videos or browsing the Internet while driving, because people are stupid and believe that an accident won’t happen to them until it does. “You know, people like blood sausage, too. People are morons.” > > Stranger It would take search warrants. On tv they say “we need a search warrant.” The next second they have one. In reality search warrants are a pain in the ass. And it’s often difficult or impossible to get the information from phone carriers.\* If I tried to get the zone prosecutor to set up a meeting in chambers in an investigation leading to a possible cellphone ticket I would probably be prohibited from ever talking to a prosecutor again. These types of inquiries happen during fatal accident investigations but rarely any other time. - many seem to think that cell companies hold on to data forever. Not even close. Some don’t keep text messages at all. Storage is expensive and sometimes the information you get can be sparse. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/89 "2018-03-22T16:11:00Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > True. I dunno, is there such a thing as “negligent assault”? Maybe negligent injury. I’m not a lawyer, that’s why when I need real legal advice or information in real life I hire an actual lawyer. Sounds like a tort not a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/90 "2018-03-22T16:24:32Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Maybe _depraved indifference_? > > It’s my favorite legal concept. If I ever get sent upstate, I can only pray that _depraved indifference_ appears on my rap sheet. > > ETA: “Man, that **kayaker**. He’s a pretty good dude, except for the occasional episode of _depraved indifference_.” What if you are depraved but not indifferent? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/91 "2018-03-22T16:25:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t think a smallish person standing at a bus stop minding her own business being knocked off her feet by a much larger person running into her is bullshit. It’s entirely plausible. But that bigger person being charged for assault seems absolutely ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/92 "2018-03-22T16:35:48Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > But that bigger person being charged for assault seems absolutely ridiculous. If you are stand in a place on the sidewalk where it is not unusual for people to stand (i.e., not the center of traffic paths) less vigilance is not unreasonable. If you put on a blindfold and stride down the sidewalk at normal speed, that is willful negligence. Burying his nose in his phone in this instance would not have been distinguishable from putting on a blindfold. Willful negligence is not different from intentional assault. Hence, I am not seeing anything wrong with the charge. If you absolutely must focus on that little screen, step over there next to that building and get it done. If you have to be somewhere, put the phone in your pocket and get there. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/93 "2018-03-22T16:43:14Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > . Willful negligence is not different from intentional assault. Hence, I am not seeing anything wrong with the charge. > . The problem is that there is indeed a difference and frankly I trust Loach’s (a New Jersey cop iirc) opinion on whether charges are realistic in this case. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/94 "2018-03-22T16:49:10Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > What if you are depraved but not indifferent? I’m sure it could happen, but IME once you’ve reached that level of morally corrupt depravity, it’s hard not to be indifferent. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/95 "2018-03-22T17:06:46Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > What if you are depraved but not indifferent? Drugs and alcohol can “solve” that problem for you. > [@eschereal](#): > > If you put on a blindfold and stride down the sidewalk at normal speed, that is willful negligence. Burying his nose in his phone in this instance would not have been distinguishable from putting on a blindfold. If you strictly follow this analogy to it’s logical conclusion, it means that any blind person walking down the street at a normal speed is being criminally negligent and can be charged with a crime. The bar for willful negligence usually requires either reckless disregard or wanton indifference, which is a higher bar than staring at a phone. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/96 "2018-03-22T17:09:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Willful negligence is not different from intentional assault. Hence, I am not seeing anything wrong with the charge. You’re just making a claim and then saying that you’re not seeing anything wrong with the charge. You’re not taking into account what sort of actions it takes for one to get charged with assault and what actions would actually result in assault charges. What does “willful negligence is not different from intentional assault” mean? What are you basing that on? If a cop sees someone intentionally assaulting someone, I’m betting the chances of the cop intervening are pretty high. When a cop witnesses someone walking down the street while looking at his phone, the chances of the cop intervening are pretty low. It may be your opinion that there’s no difference, but in the real world there is. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/97 "2018-03-22T17:14:44Z")
I don’t see how this could possibly be assault. It was an accident. It sucks she got hurt, but shit happens. Could a lawyer chime in? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/98 "2018-03-22T17:18:00Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The problem is that there is indeed a difference and frankly I trust Loach’s (a New Jersey cop iirc) opinion on whether charges are realistic in this case. In NJ it is possible to be charged with assault for acting recklessly (not negligently) but that’s with a deadly weapon. And beyond that we can not sign complaints for a disorderly persons offense (the term NJ uses for misdemeanor, don’t ask me why) that we don’t witness except under certain circumstances. Domestic violence for instance. I can’t help but think the OP is missing a piece of information or maybe the cop was misunderstood when he said she could come in and sign a complaint. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/99 "2018-03-22T17:25:28Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > I don’t see how this could possibly be assault. It was an accident. It sucks she got hurt, but shit happens. Could a lawyer chime in? IANAL, but this guy is: > [@](#): > > Can I Be Convicted of Assault If I Hit Someone by Accident? > > Yes. Under New Jersey State Law, it is possible to be convicted of assault, even if you did not purposely hurt anyone. For example, if you were acting recklessly, even if you were not trying to hurt anyone, but your reckless conduct did actually hurt someone, then you could be convicted for assault. A person acts “recklessly” if he or she has consciously disregarded a substantial and unjustifiable risk under the circumstances. > **[Assault Charges in New Jersey | Rights of Defendants in NJ Assault Cases](https://www.jonbramnick.com/articles/the-law-of-assault-what-are-my-rights/)** > > Assault charges in New Jersey include aggravated assault, simple assault, and assault by auto - each of which carries severe penalties. That answers the question of whether or no something done by accident can result in an assault conviction, but doesn’t necessarily answer whether or not what was described in the OP can. I doubt the 6’4", 230 pounds man (an estimate?) was acting recklessly by the definition given. I also don’t know if the incident happened in NJ. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883/100 "2018-03-22T17:40:47Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In NJ it is possible to be charged with assault for acting recklessly (not negligently) but that’s with a deadly weapon. Recklessly with no mention of a deadly weapon weapon in the lawyer’s statement above or here: > [@](#): > > 2C:12-1. Assault. a. Simple assault. A person is guilty of assault if he: > > (1)Attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or > > (2)Negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon; or > > (3)Attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. > **[2023 New Jersey Revised Statutes :: Title 2C - The New Jersey Code of...](https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-2c/section-2c-12-1/)** > > Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-has-been-injured-by-a-texter/810883.md?page=6)