# So who is in the right...the restaurant or the customer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421 "2010-02-25T18:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/61 "2010-02-25T22:49:58Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I’m confused. Not giving money away is bad behavior? > > I’m not sure the restaurant is on solid legal ground, unless they impose the same penalty on everyone who tips badly. Why not just add 18% to everyone’s bill? Or raise prices? Or pay the employees a living wage? See, that is actually the issue. Waiting tables is an exempt profession from the minimum wage laws, which IMHO sucks ass. Frequently if patrons dont tip, or tip crappily[IE not 10-15%], the waiter doesnt pay his rent that week. I for one would love to see that practice changed and waitstaff actually get paid minimum wage, but then all the restaurant owners would pitch a fit and all the prices would get raised, then the patrons would pitch a fit and restaurants would close =( ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/62 "2010-02-25T22:55:03Z")
I would have preferred that the restaurant manager tell this customer, “Unfortunately, we are unable to provide the level of service you require. You are more than welcome to find another restaurant to dine in.” This tactic is likely to hurt the restaurant. I couldn’t care less about the customer, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/63 "2010-02-25T23:01:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > They have not increased her bill without her consent. They have only increased the price she will be charged in the fuiture. No reputable lawyer would take the case. So she only has a few million lawyers to choose from now?😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/64 "2010-02-25T23:09:48Z")
For me, 10%+1 is a good rule. First, it's easier to calculate. Second, it means I don't end up tipping .83 at on a 6$ burger at a diner or tipping $14 at an expensive restaurant. This idea of a tip=price\*x% scale is silly to begin with. For those of you who read the OP / saw the story and though “She’s gonna be black, huh?” - shame on you. You should have been like me and went “She’s gonna be **fat** , huh?” ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/65 "2010-02-25T23:15:03Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > That guy, Jermont whatever he’s called, is the worst speaker I’ve ever heard. Why does he get to speak on television for a living? And it wasn’t that he flubbed the words. And it wasn’t just the lisp. It was that he hadn’t even mastered that ‘newscaster’ type cadence that the other newscasters use. Listen. I am a hayuuuuge tipper. I know that subconciously, I am over compensating for the stereotype, especially since I am a big loud black woman, so I am already a discredit to my race enough. But also, big tippers get awesome service. If you are a regular, it is almost celebrity type VIP treatment. And at the bar?! I the line can be thick all around, and the bartender will be pouring your shot with just a bit of eye contact between you and reaching over everyone’s head to hand it to you. Tip BIG. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/66 "2010-02-25T23:15:04Z")
I thought she’d be Canadian. Or British. > [@](#): > > Listen. I am a hayuuuuge tipper. I know that subconciously, I am over compensating for the stereotype, especially since I am a big loud black woman, so I am already a discredit to my race enough. Yes, but do you talk during movies? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/67 "2010-02-26T01:55:33Z")
I think the restaurant is in the wrong here. But then I don’t get the idea of tipping based on how much I spend. I don’t understand why (for example) the waiter should be paid more for serving me garoupa rather than cod when the work for the wait staff is the same in each. Or why they should get paid more for the me ordering the Wagyu beef over the local variety or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/68 "2010-02-26T02:15:25Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > I don’t understand why (for example) the waiter should be paid more for serving me garoupa rather than cod when the work for the wait staff is the same in each. Or why they should get paid more for the me ordering the Wagyu beef over the local variety or anything like that. Because that’s the way the IRS does it. You don’t have to understand it. You just have to understand that the IRS is going to assume you understand how tipping works. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/69 "2010-02-26T02:31:20Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > 1. The news article was ok but a little annoying: it conveyed some of the facts, but contrived to make several things sound like a gigantic deal without bothering to actually explain.\ I thought the news article was terrible - it made the customer out to have been unfairly singled out by the restaurant for no particular reason (but maybe you can assume it’s because she’s black). Her apparently chronic lack of proper tipping was hardly mentioned - if I hadn’t read this thread before watching, I wouldn’t have even known that’s why the restaurant was doing this to her. It was horribly slanted journalism. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I thought she’d be Canadian. Or British.\ It surprised the hell out of me when I learned (on these boards) that “Canadian” is a euphemism for black customers because black people and Canadians are all supposed to be lousy tippers. Whatevs, man. We can come visit your country, tip terribly, and go home again, and you can’t stop us!. 😃 Muwahahahahahahaha!😃 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/70 "2010-02-26T02:52:21Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > See, that is actually the issue. Waiting tables is an exempt profession from the minimum wage laws, which IMHO sucks ass. Actually, that’s only partly true, at least when it comes to federal minimum wage laws. Yes, those laws allow tipped employees like waiters to be paid less than minimum wage, but ONLY if the reduced wages plus tips adds up to the regular minimum wage. If the waiter’s tips are not sufficient to bring his or her total compensation up to minimum wage level, the employer is required to make up the difference. Cite: [US Department of Labor](http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/71 "2010-02-26T02:52:42Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > It surprised the hell out of me when I learned (on these boards) that “Canadian” is a euphemism for black customers because black people and Canadians are all supposed to be lousy tippers. Whatevs, man. We can come visit your country, tip terribly, and go home again, and you can’t stop us!. 😃 Muwahahahahahahaha!😃 Hey, I’m Canadian, and when I go to my favourite sports bar (in Canada), I tend to overtip the server (who is also Canadian). She deserves it; all I need to do is walk in the door and by the time I get to my usual seat, a pint of my favourite beer has magically appeared on the table. A tab has been started, with my name on it. For the time I’m there, I need not worry about my glass being empty; or, at the end of the night, my tab being wrong. Canadians aren’t lousy tippers. We just know what superior service is, and reward it accordingly. Perhaps we just have high standards. ---
**Author:** ![clarkstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@clarkstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clarkstar)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/72 "2010-02-26T03:25:35Z")
tipping is not required. i’m with the customer ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/73 "2010-02-26T03:35:29Z")
It’s really quite simple to me: if something is customary, that means it is not to be forced. You don’t like the system, then choose to go outside of it, and up your prices 18% and make tipping illegal. You want to work with the tipping system, you work within the rules of that system. You let the customer decide how much to tip. Boycotting is too good for bullies like this. ETA: The lady is a bit wrong for never tipping, but the wrong of restaurant so outweighs it, I went with the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/74 "2010-02-26T03:42:01Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Because that’s the way the IRS does it. You don’t have to understand it. You just have to understand that the IRS is going to assume you understand how tipping works. OK…then please let me be clearer. Can you please explain to me why the server “deserves” more money for bringing me a plate Garoupa over bringing me a plate of Cod. Forget “that’s how the IRS does it” that is not an answer. Tipping baed on price of the meal feels like “commission” that I am paying - when it should be done by the restaurant. To me it would make more sense to tip based on time at the table, number of pax or whatever - and more sense still to have a certain minimum tip built into the price, or compulsorily added (maybe 10%) with anything else being a genuine gratuity, bet meh… The restaurant is 100% in the wrong here. They should either have turned her away, given her such horrible service that she wouldn’t want to return or sucked it up. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/75 "2010-02-26T03:43:15Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > For me, 10%+1 is a good rule. First, it's easier to calculate. Second, it means I don't end up tipping .83 at on a 6$ burger at a diner or tipping $14 at an expensive restaurant. This idea of a tip=price\*x% scale is silly to begin with. Hey, if you need to justify being a cheapskate, go for it. Whatever gets you through the day. BTW, if you’re a regular anywhere, they hate you. Just an FYI. As to nationalities, when I was a server, I always found Americans to be lousy tippers, but nowhere near as bad as Quebecers. I think they’re the ones giving us Canucks a bad rep. But nobody, and I mean NOBODY, tips worse than teachers. I have served them individually, I have served them in groups, I have served them in a bar, I have served them in a car, they do not tip me in my hand, they do not tip me, Sam-I-Am. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/76 "2010-02-26T03:44:10Z")
While I agree that an outright banning would be a better solution, it would leave her in a better position to at least start a lawsuit claiming discrimination. “They refuse to serve me because I’m black!!” By setting it up this way, the decision for her not to come back has to be hers. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/77 "2010-02-26T03:47:18Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > Hey, if you need to justify being a cheapskate, go for it. Whatever gets you through the day. BTW, if you’re a regular anywhere, they hate you. Just an FYI. Well, to be fair, if he’s a regular at cheap cafe or diner-type places, they probably don’t mind him. After all, using his system, he will end up leaving 20% on a $10 check, and 15% on a $20 check. While 15% isn’t awesome, it’s generally acceptable. But if he frequents anywhere more expensive than that, you’re right, they hate him. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/78 "2010-02-26T03:49:53Z")
Tipping is only voluntary in theory. In the US, it’s expected. You can complain, but that’s the system and ultimately if you don’t tip, you’re cutting the income for the people who serve you. You wouldn’t like it if someone came up to you and said you’re getting $20 less per day then your regular income, would you? In this case, I side with the restaurant. If the woman doesn’t want to tip, then they can tell her their ground rules. If she doesn’t like them, her options is to give a tip (hell, she could give a 15% tip and save some money), pay the fee, or eat anywhere else. There’s no discrimination because she has the choice, and because they are not selectively doing this against a protected class under the Civil Rights Law. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/79 "2010-02-26T05:25:47Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > But let’s talk about what’s really important here, which is how bad that video was. I thought local news in LA was bad, then I moved to Mpls and gained some perspective. Then I saw that and couldn’t believe what I was watching was real. That guy, Jermont whatever he’s called, is the worst speaker I’ve ever heard. Why does he get to speak on television for a living? So I wasn’t the only one who caught that. The restaurant is a high service venue. The food is cooked in front of the patrons as part of the presentation. It is service above that of an average restaurant. 18% is a low-ball figure. Why anyone would make a public spectacle of themselves as a cheapskate is beyond me but if she is signing up additional cheapskates to boycott on her behalf then she is doing the restaurant a huge favor. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/80 "2010-02-26T05:43:13Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > They have not increased her bill without her consent. They have only increased the price she will be charged in the fuiture. No reputable lawyer would take the case. I’d take her case and explain to her the probability of losing. On an hourly fee, not a contingent basis. There is nothing disreputable about a lawyer doing that. If she wants to pay for it, she is entitled to hire the lawyer of her choice. I don’t know many people that would turn down her money in such a case, and many of them would even explain the chances of prevailing. We don’t just take cases where we agree with the client, we provide our skills to citizens who are willing to pay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421.md?page=5)