# So who is in the right...the restaurant or the customer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421 "2010-02-25T18:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/141 "2010-02-28T17:41:02Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > You must swear to use this power only for good. I make no promises. I’m currently considering arch-villain as a career change, but the paperwork has been keeping me from moving forward. World dominion, that’s where the money is. Then I’ll also execute bad tippers (though that may or may not be completely consistent with evil villain status). ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/142 "2010-02-28T18:15:41Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > I don’t care what your personal feelings are towards the tipping system in the U.S, if you penalize the people who are stuck working in it and have no control over it, you’re being an asshole. Period. Most people who don’t tip, or tip insultingly poorly, refuse to acknowledge the truth of this statement. They don’t deny it, they simply refuse to process the concept in their (by definition) sociopathic little brains. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/143 "2010-02-28T19:24:42Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I make no promises. I’m currently considering arch-villain as a career change, but the paperwork has been keeping me from moving forward. World dominion, that’s where the money is. Then I’ll also execute bad tippers (though that may or may not be completely consistent with evil villain status). Execute? Just make them wait on tables. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/144 "2010-02-28T19:26:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I just want everyone to consider for a moment, regardless of where you lie on the tipping divide, how consistently and egregiously bad a tipper/customer you would have to be to illicit this response from restaurant owner/manager.\ That’s a really good point. We have one restaurant in town where we’re actually recognized, and we had to go there on about one Friday a month for years before this recognition occurred (and the recognition we get is, "Hi! How are you guys tonight? with a big smile, not an additional charge added to our bill). The customer in the OP is no doubt an egregious one to get this kind of recognition. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/145 "2010-02-28T21:38:49Z")
From the way the customer described it in the video, the first time they added the forced 18% gratuity was just at the end of the bill without any warning. That’s wrong. But I think after that (explaining up front before she was seated that there would be a forced 18% gratuity) was fine. The restaurant could just decide to not serve her period, so I don’t think making it conditional is much more of a stretch. Not sure if this is the smart thing for the restaurant to do, though. If it’s really just that she’s a bad tipper, that seems a bit minor. Would’ve been on a better moral standing if the customer was overly disruptive/rude/etc. (Though as **elbows** points out, there probably is some of that to be singled out like this) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/146 "2010-02-28T21:53:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Execute? Just make them wait on tables. Hmm, that could work. Fits the evil motif, too. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/147 "2010-03-01T15:56:31Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > That’s phrasing it a bit strongly, but yeah, pretty much. Courtesy is nice. I think you probably agree if you think about it. Yes, courtesy is nice. But not saying thanks is not being an inconsiderate asshole. You’d probably agree, if you think about it. If such a small offense is to be labelled inconsiderate assholery, you are left with little room to describe truly bad offenses. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/148 "2010-03-02T00:19:15Z")
I’m actually really amazed that nobody has commented on the type of restaurant this is. A japanese hibachi style restaurant is the new place to be for great swaths of middle America. It’s giving the people their bread and circuses - morbidly obese people cheering the cook on as he lights onion rings on fire, screaming “sake! sake!” and having it squirted into their mouths. It’s practically haute cuisine in my hometown. My brothers love our local place, but patrons get shuffled around like dominoes. My parents (well, my mother) always tip 30% for decent service (and in the boonies, people only tip 10-15% _maybe_). Last weekend, we still weren’t seated 30 minutes past our reservation time, and a group without reservations was accidentally seated before us. At any American-run place, you’d be plied with free appetizers, desserts, or free drinks for such a mistake of a regular customer, but nothing got the manager to budge or even acknowledge an error. So if my family didn’t get noticed for tipping double the normal amount at this carnival-like shithole for over a year, you REALLY have to be fucking up big time, demanding and consistently tip nothing or next to nothing to even get _noticed_. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/149 "2010-03-02T00:33:11Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s a really good point. We have one restaurant in town where we’re actually recognized, and we had to go there on about one Friday a month for years before this recognition occurred (and the recognition we get is, "Hi! How are you guys tonight? with a big smile, not an additional charge added to our bill). The customer in the OP is no doubt an egregious one to get this kind of recognition. No kidding. I’m a regular at a particular sushi place in town and the recognition I get is extra free fish and no charge for drinks. If I was a regular at some place and this happened I think I would be looking at my behaviour for some clues as opposed to blaming the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/150 "2010-03-02T01:34:33Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > I don’t care what your personal feelings are towards the tipping system in the U.S, if you penalize the people who are stuck working in it and have no control over it, you’re being an asshole. Period. Not so much - although I feel it is wrong to go to a “personal” level, the quite legitimate theory is that if enough waitpeople complain because they are getting shafted, the system may change. So I guess that people that participate in protests are arseholes for blocking city streets, or for making work for the police also. Not paying a tip is ONE (net neccessarily the best) quite simple way for individuals to make their feelings felt. > [@lezlers](#): > > And for those who keep asking “why should I have to pay more just because my bill is larger?” It’s been explained multiple times. Servers are taxed on their _sales_, not by the number of customers they serve. Those taxes are taken out of their checks and that is the amount they are expected to tip out towards back of the house staff at the end of the evening. Thus, _that_ is the amount you are expected to tip off of. It couldn’t be more simply explained if we drew you pictures in crayon. Those who still claim not to “get it” are being willfully obtuse. It’s really not a hard concept. Yep, this is quite simple and straight forward, but it still doesn’t address why the waitperson should need to tip-out based on their sales. If the wait person was getting tipped, for example, on how many people they served - why couldn’t the tip-out be calculated based on that? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/151 "2010-03-02T03:45:48Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Hmm, that could work. Fits the evil motif, too. Not enough cheapskate bull-whipping. I’ve been in restaurants on office social occasions and have been saddled with these justitification-rationalizing dead-beat scumbag non-tippers that the rest of us have to make up for. Without one single exception, I have observed that each was as crap an employee as they were a crap-tipper. Too bad interviewers don’t take interviewees out to a lunch where they are expected to leave the tip, because it would be a nice secret knock-out punch to accidentally hiring office a-holes that need to be fast-tracked out through HR later. ---
**Author:** ![Baby\_Driver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@Baby\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baby_Driver)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/152 "2010-03-02T05:46:07Z")
My impression after watching the video and before reading other responses here… I think the restaurant is mostly in the right, but for their own sakes, they should have handled the situation differently. I think it would have been cleaner to refuse to serve her altogether rather than insisting she pay 18% gratuity. That’s rather humiliating, and the customer might not have raised this much hue & cry if they hadn’t pitched it like they did. It would have been better for the restaurant to have waited after they served her the first night to tell her, privately, why they tacked on the gratuity. It’s awkward to walk into a restaurant with friends and be shown up as a lousy tipper. If the restaurant is fine with 15% gratuity for parties of six or more, they shouldn’t be charging her above that automatically. But honestly, why would anyone want to make national news for being such a notoriously poor tipper that all the wait staff AND chefs refuse to serve her? My God, where is the shame? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/153 "2010-03-02T14:51:33Z")
> [@Baby\_Driver](#): > > But honestly, why would anyone want to make national news for being such a notoriously poor tipper that all the wait staff AND chefs refuse to serve her? My God, where is the shame? The more I think about it, the more I think she possibly thought this could be the black/white/Jesse and some lawyers to the rescue payday of a lifetime. The whole thing from day one could have been a setup. I think the manager should have told the staff to be a good as possible to her in everyway a few last times and document how much she tipped. If she didnt tip then, they would have a much better leg to stand on justification wise, not that I don’t think they were generally right to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/154 "2010-03-02T19:03:24Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Not enough cheapskate bull-whipping. > > I’ve been in restaurants on office social occasions and have been saddled with these justitification-rationalizing dead-beat scumbag non-tippers that the rest of us have to make up for. Without one single exception, I have observed that each was as crap an employee as they were a crap-tipper. > > Too bad interviewers don’t take interviewees out to a lunch where they are expected to leave the tip, because it would be a nice secret knock-out punch to accidentally hiring office a-holes that need to be fast-tracked out through HR later. Oh, God, you have to be so careful when you eat out with a group. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen people throw down what they figured was enough to cover their meal and take off - hello, what about tip and tax? You do not want to be the last couple of people who have to cover everyone else’s shortfall. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/155 "2010-03-03T12:57:22Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > I voted that the restaurant is in the right. If she eats there so often that her not tipping makes her famous amongst the serving staff then she obviously doesn’t mind the service and should tip accordingly. The fact that they gave her an option of tipping in the future or not coming back was incredibly nice of them since they could have just told her to haul her ass out of there and not come back. I’m with you on this. As a former waitress at a chain restaurant, I wish we could have kicked some people out. There was one family of 5 (no automatic tip) that would come in about once a month and the only tip we would get is that they would round their bill to the nearest dollar. So max you would get is $.99. It was ridiculous. But my manager didn’t have any spine to talk to them or kick them out or anything. Usually, when she saw that a server had them, she would give the server a free dinner. That’s great and all, but it’s not gonna help me pay my rent to get a free dinner after my shift! What’s worse is that these people were very demanding. Soup wasn’t hot enough. Soup was too hot. Everything must be on the side, extra everything, crackers for the kids, three lemon wedges (and sugar packets) for the water (home-made lemonade? CHEAP!) It was a very frustrating experience to wait on these people. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/156 "2010-03-14T15:06:39Z")
The restaurant is in the right…and _I_ think waiters should stop bitching about bad tippers and start bitching about not having the legal right to min. wage. Plus, the bias of the news report is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![aerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9a140/32.png) [@aerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerie)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/157 "2010-03-15T02:11:14Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I’d like to add that another reason I hate it is because it’s become mandatory. It’s how humans are built, I guess, when something is voluntary, you like it more, but when people demand you do something, you start to hate it. I can’t help it, I hate tipping. I would love to do it if it wasn’t expected all the time, but because it is, I really really hate it How about doing it because it’s the good, generous, HUMAN thing to do for someone who is serving you? No one demands it. Yes, it’s customary almost to the point of “required”. But, no one is rallying for changing that custom. THAT is the custom of sit-down restaurants. That’s the understood deal for all parties. If you don’t like that custom, hit a drive-thru. Some people get a sick hard-on for having someone ‘serve’ them & be at their beck and call. Then refuse to compensate for their work. I guess they get to feel superior for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/158 "2010-03-15T02:35:59Z")
> [@aerie](#): > > How about doing it because it’s the good, generous, HUMAN thing to do for someone who is serving you? > > No one demands it. Yes, it’s customary almost to the point of “required”. But, no one is rallying for changing that custom. THAT is the custom of sit-down restaurants. That’s the understood deal for all parties. If you don’t like that custom, hit a drive-thru. > > Some people get a sick hard-on for having someone ‘serve’ them & be at their beck and call. Then refuse to compensate for their work. I guess they get to feel superior for a while. If you know you’re not getting a tip from someone like this then make sure every meal arrives burnt and frozen. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/159 "2010-03-15T06:24:47Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Yep, this is quite simple and straight forward, but it still doesn’t address why the waitperson should need to tip-out based on their sales. If the wait person was getting tipped, for example, on how many people they served - why couldn’t the tip-out be calculated based on that? The main reason is because the tax burden is calculated based on their sales. The numbers may be different in the US, but Revenue Canada presumes that a server receives an average of 10% tips on every dollar they bill out and they are taxed based on that. Theoretically you are supposed to claim anything in excess of that you receive but there is no method for reporting less. That said my job as a waitress was the highest grossing of my teen years. ---
**Author:** ![Teufelblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@Teufelblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teufelblitz)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2010, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421/160 "2010-03-15T10:06:16Z")
My bet is the reason they don’t want to wait on her isn’t so much that she doesn’t tip well. It’s that she’s rude, demanding and unappreciative of the extra effort that her bellowing for an entire sliced lemon so she can make lemonade with the table sugar causes. There are some people who will find a problem with anything the server brings out regardless of whether it is exactly as they initially requested. To make things worse, these types of people tend to travel in packs. I saw entire tables full of food get wasted because of this kind of thing when I waited tables as a youth. When the best server in the house, you know, the one with the sterling reputation and all the positive feedback from customers, gets reamed by this ONE frequent guest and her friends? Makes one want to impose a “You’re a bitch” fee. The customer is not always right. Anyone who says this wants something they are not owed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-who-is-in-the-right-the-restaurant-or-the-customer/530421.md?page=9)