I think it’d be well received. PM sent.
I’m not disputing the claim that there are “some”. But are they numerous enough to justify such a colassal backlash?
And if it weren’t for those couple thousand, the US military would have no trouble taking over the entire Islamic world, right? :rolleyes:
Re: **Bear Nenno’s ** post:
Wait a tick! We aren’t doing that already? Are you kidding me? We’re spending enough to build a life-size statue of Godzilla out of hundred dollar bills, and we don’t even have a bit of slack to extend some of the ol’ “hearts and minds” action? Hell, we’ve already spent enough to give every kid in Iraq a *solid gold * soccer ball!
The stupid! It burns, it burns!
Colassal backlash? WTF are you talking about? Are you reading into my post or something? The OP seemed to believe that no person could in fact be against the troops. All I was doing was pointing out that there are pleanty of people who actually are against them. What the fuck is the big deal with that? What the hell is so colassal about that? Geeez. I dont care that people feel that way. I was just informing him that they do. What the hell is your deal?
What the fuck are you talking about? Are you just making shit up to debate here? Do you think you could stick to something I actually said, instead materializing bullshit arguments that I never made or even implied, simply so you can rebut them and be the hero of reason? Are you drunk?
Depends on what you mean by “we”. If you mean America, then I’m sure there are pleanty of groups doing this and sponsoring such activities and programs. But I’m sure you mean “The Military” or “The US Government”. Well there are units out there doing such things already. There are units with the specific job of handing out goodies, spreading smiles, helping the schools, etc etc. But that kind of stuff is mostly for Civil Affairs and the like. It’s not really an infantry mission.
And some unit must have been passing out soccer balls in the past. Because kids are always making the shape and motions of a soccer ball when we drive by. If that makes sense… American vehicles seem to be regarded as the neighborhood Ice Cream truck… only we apparently give out free soccer balls and chocolate.
But, being infantry, it’s not really a major priority for my unit. We’re out looking for the bad guys and insurgent terrorists so we can kill them (or arrest them). But I deal with the public and personally interact with the Iraqi communities so much, that it would be nice to offer something other than what little candy or pop tarts or whatever else we have stashed on the truck. Especially for the kids.
The best answer to, “Support the Troops,” I’ve read was by Calamity Jon Morris. I didn’t find a link, but it boils down to this:
I’ve known military personnel who were good guys, & military personnel who were jerks. Just like the rest of the populace. I’m not going to support anyone just because he’s a troop, nor condemn someone just because he’s a troop.
I agree with Jon on this.
Now, if you want to argue about military policy, we can argue whether a particular decision was smart or stupid, good or evil.
I support the troops, but I’ve been accused by Mr. Moto of - get this - being insufficiently supportive of the war reporters. 
At least the ones not named Beauchamp. 
I don’t support the troops. I don’t want them to die or anything, or even get hurt or have a bad time over there, and would sort of even actually prefer it if they got home in both good physical and mental health, and preferably soon (if they prefer being home to being over there, that is).
But I haven’t done one single darned thing to help make any of this happen.
Heck, I haven’t even stuck a little yellow ribbon picture on my car, or hung a flag anywhere, or called war protesters terrorists, or any of the other simple things that help the troops over there. How lazy is that?
The shame and dishonor of having served in the USAF in Iraq does weigh heavy. We should support each charitable endeavour to relieve the troops of that indignity.
Every person on this board and out in the real world, who spoke out in support of this misadventure and continue to aplogise for it. They don’t support the troops one little bit.
I support the troops just as I support the police or paramedics or firefighters or teachers. Not every cop is a hero and not every cop is beating the crap out of innocent people. Not every firefighter is single handedly carrying orphans and kittens out of burning buildings and not every one is having strippers come to the firehouse for drunken orgies. Not every teacher is teaching Helen Keller and not everyone is sleeping with her students.
I support people who are doing a tough and often thankless job. Yes, they signed up for it and knew what could happen to them and what kinds of situations they might face. Just because TPTB decided on a BS course of action in Iraq doesn’t mean I will turn my back on these men and women who were sent there (I’m not including the troops sent to Afghanistan where there was a legitimate link to 9/11).
To me, supporting the troops means wanting to get these kids home as quickly and as safely as possible. It means that while they are there I will provide them with the things they are not able to get from the government and the things they miss from home. It means sending the troops the little things, such as toys, clothes, books and food, that they can pass out to the locals to help make brighten up (a little) the lives of the people who are stuck in the middle of an ideological pissing contest. It means that when they do get home that I will not stop looking out for them and will do what I can to make their transition back to civilian life as easy as possible and I will help them to get access to the resources they need.
Before they were soldiers, they were our friends and family. Just as I will not turn my back on my friends, I will not turn my back on these soldiers. I will not paint them all with the broad brush that too many are quick to do. It is unfair to them and is just as morally reprehensible as painting all <insert any minority> as being evil/stupid/dangerous/whatever.
This really isn’t an argument I personally want to get into, of course, but I am just posting to make Bear aware that I shot (ha, bad word choice!) him a PM.
What? Wow. You know, the left got very, very insulted (and rightfully so) with any attempt to paint anti-war protestors as Un-American or traitors, or even the suggestion that they didn’t support the troops. “How dare you accuse us,” they would say. “We have a right to speak! It’s just the right-wing smear machine!” And they **are not ** Un-American, and they **are not ** traitors, and they **do ** have a right to speak. However, there are valid reasons to not support and support the effort (debating the efficacy of the war…different story).
I cannot believe you (personally you - not the left in general) have reached the point where you think it’s ok to paint the other side with the same brush.
So, no. You’re wrong here, and I find that as offensive as I did regarding those who threw the bile towards the left.
Why just the air force?
I don’t support the troops because ultimately they pick up weapons and are willing to kill, and do kill, other human beings. I know a world without war is only a dream, so I guess they’re necessary, but I can’t support the efforts of either side. I don’t wish anyone dead, or a killer.
And I can’t go along with the “they’re only innocent pawns in the administration’s plan”. They joined the service willing to follow whatever plan was made, and there’s been enough recent history to know what those plans might involve. And if they weren’t available for the government to use, perhaps the government might have to try other things??
I like to think my dollars go to social programs others don’t support, and theirs go to the military. I know that’s a feeble justification too.
I don’t think I can claim to support the troops.
I don’t want them dead, but I don’t want them killing others, either.
And I really hate the doublespeak where so many soldiers (and supporters) claim that the soldiers don’t have any choice and are merely a tool while at the same time they are supposed to be honored for their choices.
I don’t support all choices equally, and if it isn’t a choice then supporting the living equivalent to a piece of machinery doesn’t make sense either.
I’ll bet he means Armed Forces.
I too would llove to hear a definition of ‘support’ from the next person who accuses anyone else of not supporting the troops. I can only imagine ‘support’ to mean paying them well, making their service rare and required, providing adequate, functioning equipment, respecting contracts, offering counseling to spouses and children, respecting sexual harassment and assault claims by female soldiers, paying veterans’ health care bills… or sticking a yellow ribbon on your SUV.
Good luck to you. Stay safe! (And do you have suggestions of any groups I could support-like sending CARE packages and such?)
There are a lot of us out there who do NOT support the war, but still support the troops. In fact, I’m MORE against the war because I don’t think our men and women should be involved in this needless stupidity. My cousin came back from Iraq last year, only to find out that Gramma died. My aunt and uncle didn’t want to worry him while he was over there, so wasn’t told until he came back. And he and my aunt and uncle are all against the war. So to me, I think they shouldn’t have to give up their lives for a political war.
But to our troops over there-just let them come home safe and sound.
I also like this take on the whole thing.