# So who's being the bigger jerk in this situation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 7, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221 "2012-11-07T15:09:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wuthering\_lows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a4c791/32.png) [@wuthering\_lows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wuthering_lows)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/101 "2012-11-13T21:01:29Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Anyway, it was meant to hurt, though not very much. But this wasn’t a rejection; it was a denial. The terms are not synonymous. > > I’m not really seeing why, **even if I had not been deliberately and consciously setting out to get this woman the fuck out of my office** , I would have been obliged to say “yes” to her request for cake. It was my cake, after all. No one was entitled to it except me and my team. Are you saying that I **must** accede to any request for pastries, pizza, or whatever other goodies I make? If so, why? I don’t know what this person’s immediacy is to you in terms of the spatial layout of your office, but you do not have to accede to any requests. Then again… On the flip side, getting into a situation over baked goods could lead to some awkwardness. But if it’s awkwardness you can tolerate and won’t harm your employment prospects now or in the future, then by all means… Deny her access to you hard toiled and baked goods! Sometimes, you can’t straddle the fence and need to draw the line somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/102 "2012-11-14T22:52:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Yeah, you were being a dink then. If you are pretty sure someone meant no offense and then you took offense anyway? What other opinion can there be? I mean, normal humans might have thought that the woman was trying to be freindly, for one reason or another. > > Also, re the OP, cooking - baking -\> different. I’ve heard the distinction between cooking and baking many times before, and frankly it strikes me as silly. I don’t see a fundamental difference between roasting lamb and baking cake, between making a pizza and making a cheesecake. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/103 "2012-11-14T23:03:27Z")
If we say she’s jerkier, does that absolve you of blame? If you intended to hurt her feelings then you should feel bad regardless of the severity of what she’s said or done. Miss Manners would have a perfectly lovely phrase on the order of, “I make these cakes to reward my team for their work and any extra is fair game. Once everyone I made it for has had a piece, you are more than welcome to stop by and see if there’s any left.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/104 "2012-11-14T23:06:23Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’ve heard the distinction between cooking and baking many times before, and frankly it strikes me as silly. I don’t see a fundamental difference between roasting lamb and baking cake, between making a pizza and making a cheesecake. I’m surprised. I could see people who cook not seeing a difference, but people who bake usually get how the approaches need to be different. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/105 "2012-11-15T00:04:24Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Miss Manners would have a perfectly lovely phrase on the order of, “I make these cakes to reward my team for their work and any extra is fair game. Once everyone I made it for has had a piece, you are more than welcome to stop by and see if there’s any left.” (snipped) I really dunno about that. Miss Manners most absolutely does not appear to me to be the type to accommodate insulting persons, regardless of the social abilities of the person who is doing the insulting. _ **I** _ would be afraid to insult Miss Manners, let’s just put it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/106 "2012-11-15T00:34:04Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m surprised. I could see people who cook not seeing a difference, but people who bake usually get how the approaches need to be different. I dunno. I learned how to bake starting with bread, and bread is really pretty forgiving. I almost never go by a recipe any more for bread. Many other things that aren’t baked are a lot less forgiving, e.g., cooking steaks. I’m kind of with Skald on this one. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/107 "2012-11-15T02:03:45Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > First of all - Her. No question. > > Haven’t you noticed that most hypotheticals come with a baked goods option? That’s only when he posts it in the form of a poll. Which I notice you didn’t do this time, **Skald**. And I _so_ wanted to select lemon bars. Jerk. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/108 "2012-11-15T05:59:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I dunno. I learned how to bake starting with bread, and bread is really pretty forgiving. I almost never go by a recipe any more for bread. Many other things that aren’t baked are a lot less forgiving, e.g., cooking steaks. Cooking a perfect steak is not much of a fair example, imho. And only if you don’t care too much exactly how it turns out is bread forgiving. Since most expert Chefs and Bakers I’ve met agree with the saying “Cooking is an Art; Baking is a Science”, I feel comfortable not agreeing with Skald on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/109 "2012-11-15T11:33:52Z")
Baking is less forgiving than cooking for a couple of reasons. The exact measure of ingredients is often very important, it’s hard to tell in advance if you have the right amount, and you can’t adjust on the fly. If you get the wrong amount of baking powder in your cake, you’re going to have a really terrible cake. If you put too little salt on your rack of lamb, it’ll just be a little under seasoned, it won’t be a colossal failure. If you’re making a chili, you can taste it as it cooks and adjust your seasoning, and you won’t overmix it by accident. If your cheesecake mix has too much egg, the texture will be totally off, and you won’t know until it comes out with a huge crack in it, and tastes like ass. Bread is a bit more forgiving because you can adjust it on the fly by observing and feeling it before you bake it. You know what bread dough should feel like, and how much it should rise, so it’s fairly easy to catch a mistake before it goes in the oven. I do it all the time with my pizza dough, if the dough is too sticky or too dry, I fix it before it’s done kneading. A lot of baking doesn’t allow you that option. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/110 "2012-11-15T16:31:09Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If we say she’s jerkier, does that absolve you of blame? If you intended to hurt her feelings then you should feel bad regardless of the severity of what she’s said or done. Miss Manners would have a perfectly lovely phrase on the order of, “I make these cakes to reward my team for their work and any extra is fair game. Once everyone I made it for has had a piece, you are more than welcome to stop by and see if there’s any left.” I think Miss Manners’ response would be more like, “I make these cakes to reward my team for their work. Anyone who doubts that I make them myself need not trouble themselves to eat any.” > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > \it comes out with a huge crack in it, and tastes like ass.\ Heh heh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/111 "2012-11-15T16:41:06Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think Miss Manners’ response would be more like, “I make these cakes to reward my team for their work. Anyone who doubts that I make them myself need not trouble themselves to eat any.” Maybe. It’s still kind of slammy and Miss Manners is quite clear that others being rude does not give oneself carte blanche to be rude in return. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/112 "2012-11-15T17:15:43Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Maybe. It’s still kind of slammy and Miss Manners is quite clear that others being rude does not give oneself carte blanche to be rude in return. Or any other color carte, for that manner. You don’t get to be any level of rude in order to answer someone else’s rudeness. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/113 "2012-11-15T17:19:27Z")
Well, you can be and I will be the first to admit that I’ll throw shade with the best of them in certain situations but I’m not going to pretend that it’s ok as long as whatever I say or do is somehow less offensive than what they did. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/114 "2012-11-15T19:26:14Z")
Skald, I have empathy for you. I like to bake too. My German mother made all sorts of awesome German pastries as well as delicious meals where butter and cream were the main ingredients. She gifted me her recipes before she died; and I love going through them making things from childhood. Since they’re all loaded with calories; I generally make them with plans on bringing them to work. I always get the “Kathy sure did a good job on this!” (Kathy, being my wife of course) The funny thing is, Kathy doesn’t really cook. Our arrangement at home is generally me cooking and her doing the cleaning. So Lucy at your work; is just rude; I don’t know if it was a good thing that it was pointed out to her. I’ll leave that up to the manners people that will flock to this thread. To question you once is forgivable. Multiple times is rude. I rate that along the lines of looking at someones new engagement ring and declaring loudly: “Oh my God, is that real?” I have a theory… people project they type of person they are; onto other people. i.e. A liar is always worried that he’s being lied to. A thief is always worried about people stealing from him. Conversely a good/nice/innocent person is generally gullible simple because they expect everyone else to be a good/nice/innocent person. That Lucy? What a Bitch! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/115 "2012-11-15T20:53:30Z")
I vote her. Ingratitude mixed with sexism. Still, you could have just told her straight she’s annoying you with her baseless accusations and to knock it off, rather than getting all passive-aggressive. Disclaimer: My personal style would be to go the passive-aggressive route too. Mainly, I just like the idea of rating foods by how much they would reduce your life-expectancy. They should label them that way. Super-nacho Flavor Doritos (per serving) 110 calories 8 grams of saturated fat 15 minutes of your life ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/116 "2012-11-16T05:49:37Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Maybe. It’s still kind of slammy and Miss Manners is quite clear that others being rude does not give oneself carte blanche to be rude in return. What’s slammy about that? You’re just allowing her a gracious retreat from eating food that she doesn’t think you’re being honest about. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/117 "2012-11-16T12:48:04Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m surprised. I could see people who cook not seeing a difference, but people who bake usually get how the approaches need to be different. I’m not saying that baking does not require a particular approach; I am saying that baking is a subset of cooking, as, for instance, stock car racing is a subset of car racing. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/118 "2012-11-16T14:55:15Z")
I wonder how hard it would be to make a 2-layer yellow cake with chocolate frosting. On top of the chocolate frosting in Hershey’s kisses, " Lucy, you got Some ‘splainin’ to do! " And on top of the first layer? Between the layers of yellow cake, formed also in Hershey’s Kisses, a big smiley face. Ok, that doesn’t answer the question. Yes you were more right than she was, but you have to work there. Eventually, you have to work with everyone in that building, so why add to the awkward? Seriously, next time feed her some cake & smooth this over with icing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/119 "2012-11-19T18:22:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, then there is no further need for discussion. You meant to hurt her. You’re being the bigger jerk. It’s self-evident. And you just intended to hurt him, so now you’re the bigger jerk, by your own logic. This is one of the things I find so annoying about people who insist on manners. They always break their own rules, and almost always to insult someone else. And Miss Manners is all about the snarky put down disguised as being for the other person’s well being. I don’t know what column you guys have been reading that think she’d be against this. She’s like the most passive aggressive person in existence. Hence why I tell people to ignore her. Skald, you were less of a jerk, unless you are so socially clueless that you couldn’t tell that she was joking. I have seen nothing about you that makes me think you have Asperger’s or some sort of social phobia that left you deficient in social skills. Also, anyone who claims that she still could have been joking must accept that she would be required to think he was joking, or else she’s a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221/120 "2012-11-19T18:50:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And you just intended to hurt him, so now you’re the bigger jerk, by your own logic. This is one of the things I find so annoying about people who insist on manners. They always break their own rules, and almost always to insult someone else. What are you talking about? Skald asked our opinions on who is the bigger jerk in this situation and I answered. Who intended to hurt whom in this situation? > [@](#): > > Also, anyone who claims that she still could have been joking must accept that she would be required to think he was joking, or else she’s a hypocrite. If he had been joking, he would have given her the cake. In any case, we know he wasn’t joking because he is in this thread telling us what happened from his point of view. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-whos-being-the-bigger-jerk-in-this-situation/640221.md?page=7)