So why are alcohol and tobacco legal while marijuana is illegal?

[Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus]

@Magiver

I would like to see pot decriminalized further to that of a parking ticket. .

In a sense, this has virtually happened in California. IIRC, the misdemeanor presumptive bail schedule specifies a bail of $75 for possession of less than an ounce of pot. That actually is almost within the range for parking tickets. However, there’s the added consideration of court costs, and possible fines. I don’t know if people actually get arrested and booked for misdemeanor possession, or if they only get a “ticket”.

[DrDeth]

@Spectre of Pithecanthropus

However, there’s the added consideration of court costs, and possible fines. I don’t know if people actually get arrested and booked for misdemeanor possession, or if they only get a “ticket”.

Generally, just a 'ticket".

[Magiver]

@wolfman97

I certainly would agree that people ought to be sober when they are driving. However, there just isn’t any real evidence that pot has any big negative effect on driving for experienced users. (New users are another matter, but I would guess that, for various reasons, there aren’t a lot of stoned new users on the road at any given time.)

For example, the US Government’s own studies indicate that marijuana is only a very minor part of the overall road problem, if that. Alcohol gets credit for about half of all the deaths, and all the illegal drugs combined don’t come close to that total. Never have and never will – just because of the difference in the effects on people. Most of those drugs – marijuana included – don’t impair physical coordination like alcohol does.

Some research from Australia and the Netherlands indicates that (experienced) stoned drivers may be safer, on average, than straight drivers. They figure this is not because marijuana is not intoxicating (it clearly is), but that the effects related to driving are not severe and the users are able to compensate for them. In fact, it would appear that they overcompensate and tend to drive more carefully as a result. (Not that this is a recommendation for driving while stoned – just that I am indicating the real results of research.)

In 1980, Road and Track did an article titled “Puff the Dangerous Driver” in which they attempted to show the dangerous effects of driving while stoned on pot. They took two groups of drivers. One group got increasing doses of alcohol, while the other got increasing doses of pot. Then they put them through a driving course. The alcohol drinkers’ driving rapidly went to hell. However, the pot smokers got gradually better at the course.

Stoned is stoned. You are not going to convince me someone stoned on pot is not dangerous and it’s just nonsense to think driving improves with dosage. Maybe lower levels of pot are “better” than lower levels of alcohol when driving. Couldn’t say. I can say that large levels of pot are just as bad as large levels of alcohol.

[tomndebb]

OK. I have tracked down the June, 1980 article in Car and Driver (not Road and Track), “Puff, the Dangerous Driver.” All I can say is, in the words of Inigo Montoya, “I do not think it means what you think it means.”

It was not a scientific test.
They did not match drinking vs toking.
The tokers did not get better the more they toked up.
Now, they did indicate that there appeared to be no appreciable loss of perception or control as they got high. There did not appear to be a serious impairment to their reflexes as there would have been with alcohol.

On the the hand, they became less and less concerned with the outcome of the test. When they concentrated on the specific maneuvers needed to complete the course, they were able to carry them out. However, they paid little attention to anything outside those maneuvers and displayed a reckless disregard for the situation while they were driving. On the last pass, one driver charged through at 50 mph (when they had been keeping to around 35 mph for most of the test) knocking over a few cones on one pass and making it through without a knockdown on the next. However, he was successful only in carryingout the specific task and the authors noted that he would have been oblivious to other traffic in a situation outside the test environment. In other words, he would have been quite capable of keeping his car in the center of the lane while he was driving, but it appeared that he would have maintained that “good” driving even if something unexpected had happened to which he should have reacted.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@tomndebb

When they concentrated on the specific maneuvers needed to complete the course, they were able to carry them out.

That’s the key weakness in such tests, as I see it. If one drives a test course several times (or does any task, really), performance will naturally improve as familiarity does. A fairer test would be to alter the course after each round of smoking/drinking, so the subjects can’t go by memory.

[II_Gyan_II]

@tomndebb

the authors noted that he would have been oblivious to other traffic in a situation outside the test environment.

There was a controlled study published last year

Psychoactive substance use and the risk of motor vehicle accidents (PDF)

The odd ratios for various drugs

Amphetamines → 2.10
Benzodiazepines → 5.05
Cannabis → 1.22
Cocaine → 2.04
Opiates → 2.35

Alcohol
BAC < 0.5 → 1.00 (base reference)
BAC 0.5-0.79 → 5.46
BAC 0.8 >= → 15.5

Multiple drugs vs. no drug → 6.05
Drug-alcohol combo vs. no drug → 112.22

[tomndebb]

Multiple drugs vs. no drug --> 6.05
Drug-alcohol combo vs. no drug --> 112.22

It should be noted that my specific point was merely to confirm (or not) the claim that perfomance improved under the influence of pot.

I am willing to believe that pot has a less deleterious effect than alcohol (with all the usual caveats that we cannot reliably measure how much THC (or supplemental agents) are found in a single hit or joint so that we have nothing similar to a BAC to compare).

I was just curious regarding the “improvement” claim.

[foolsguinea]

@wolfman97

Some scientists did some tests once to see how well marijuana produces a “contact high”. They found that, in order for the person to be exposed to enough marijuana that it would register on a drug test, the person had to be placed in a booth with so much smoke that they had to wear goggles.

Good to know.