Yep. But some people find the phrase “how dare Joe Biden appeal to Democratic and independent voters!” to be insufficiently exciting, so they substitute the loaded term “pandering” to make it seem there’s a point worth debating.
See also, “Joe Biden consistently supports the ACA — he’s so recalcitrant!” vs “Bernie consistently supports Medicare for All - he’s so principled!”
Seriously what is wrong with you people?
I know exactly which oblast I’m sitting in.
Like genuinely imagine for a moment the FSB order to just go wreck the “Straight Dope Message Board.”
Bernie Sanders has been fairly consistent in his positions for about 50 years. Joe Biden, when he’s bothered to have positions, has done an awful lot of shuffling. It’s almost like he doesn’t stand for anything. Mighty kind of him to come around on gay marriage in what, the late 2000s? Soon he can find out about the information economy.
100% true. Which is why I have the horrible feeling that she’s going to be the pick.
Heh. You know, it never really occurred to me before, but: if you’re right, and Biden was always going to simply give an honest answer to the VP question at that debate, can you imagine just how much worse that could’ve gotten phrased?
“And, as we come to the end of tonight’s debate: you two have expressed clear disagreements on a number of issues; but there also seems to be a lot of common ground between the two of you, the two top vote-getters in these primaries. So my final question to you, Senator Sanders, is this: if you get the nomination, would you consider asking the other gentleman to be your running mate? Yes or no.”
[Sanders pauses, and the audience eventually chuckles, as he looks the guy over]
“You know what? Yeah. Hell, yeah, I would. Absolutely.”
[The audience cheers like crazy. Cut back to: the moderator]
“Vice-President Biden: same question, yes or no.”
I don’t believe for a second that you are a Russian. But your reference to “your country” above seems a clear indication that you aren’t in the US, and when you said that young people vote often, you’re clearly not talking about the US. So I’m wondering which country you’re talking about that has good levels of youth participation, and what that really means.
I never said he was the reason. To the extent there’s a single reason that my country is in shambles, it can be summed up as “people are idiots”. In particular, people here: People elsewhere are idiots, too, but non-American idiocy isn’t very relevant for America’s status.
What I said was that most of the “Bernie or bust” people are paid Russian trolls. Anyone who can’t make a decision between Biden and Trump, or who chooses Trump over Biden, wasn’t ever a supporter of what Sanders supports. Oh, I’m sure there are a few who fall into those categories who sincerely think that they support Sanders, because again, people are idiots, but most of that narrative is coming from the Kremlin.
I very clearly live in the US, and no, most Bernie supporters who’ve bailed on the party aren’t in Russia.
This is hilariously wrong. There are many, many female suburban voters that will vote for Biden if he picks a female VP that may not if he doesn’t. This isn’t even really debatable, IMO.
No swing voter knows what “woke” means. I’m not 100% sure Biden himself does…
What the possible suburban female swing voter heard and though (the day after in the headlines, because absolutely no swing voters watch primary debates) is “Hey, Biden’s going to pick a woman. Cool.” That’s it.
That’ll earn you a warning, Organism.
It’s specifically against the rules to accuse others of being Russian trolls. Don’t do it again.
Why did you say to an American, “ Vladimir Putin is not the reason your country and its politics are in shambles…” if you live here? I can’t even imagine what you’re driving at.
I go the opposite way. I think it was a screw-up. Let’s face facts; Biden’s a good politician but he’s a poor candidate. One of his big problems as a candidate is he throws out a lot of verbal gaffes. And I feel this was one of them.
He and his team may have decided on picking a woman VP. There’s nothing wrong with that; lots of VP choices are made for reasons that can be described as “pandering”. Pence was picked to appeal to evangelicals. Biden himself was picked to balance out Obama’s race and inexperience.
But putting aside the making of the decision, it was announced in just about the worst possible way. Biden should never have announced he was going to pick “a woman”; he should have waited until he made his pick, gotten her agreement to run, and then announced he was picking this specific person - who just happened to be a woman.
By announcing he was making being a woman a qualification, he’s damaged the reputation of whoever he picks (and there’s a good chance some women might decline the offer for that reason). However qualified she is, there will now be the perception that she only got the job because it was set aside for a woman.
While there would have been inevitable accusations that this was just pandering and identity politics, Biden could have refuted them if he hadn’t said this. He could have gone with the “I didn’t pick her because she’s a woman. I picked her because she was the best person for the job” line. But he’s throw that chance away and handed the Republicans a sound-bite that will dog the rest of the campaign.
I think, in general, the people susceptible to believing this kind of thing already believe it (these are the ones who think Obama wouldn’t have been elected if he was white). I think this excites more Biden skeptics (like me - I’m still not at all a fan, but I feel far less bad about him than I did before that) than it potentially turns off.
If Biden is undisciplined enough to throw out something like this off the cuff, rather than planned, then he’s an even worse candidate than I fear, and who knows what will happen.
Whiole I agree it was a bad move, I’m not sure this qualifies as a “gaffe,” does it? A gaffe is a spontaneous thing that just sounds awful or hideously stupid. This strikes me as being more of a strategic-level error.
Biden’s poor campaigning skills would be a serious problem is he was campaigning against somebody like Obama or Reagan or Kennedy. They were all excellent campaigners.
But Biden will be campaigning against Trump, who will say more dumb things in a typical day than Biden will say in the whole campaign.
With all due respect - and I mean it, I don’t know you as a person, I have no idea what you’re like and I don’t mean this to be personal, but :
That’s the kind of comment that would come from someone who’s been asleep for the past 4 years.
The idea of announcing seems like a non issue to me.
He is looking to “tick boxes” with past experiences and being female is one of those boxes. It is a qualification that is important to him.
When looking to fill a role, it seems that bringing diverse perspectives, or a background that you don’t have is a relevant thing to look for. If you come from an urban area, growing up rural might matter, as might being a minority, or speaking a second language or being female or any other demographic / pyschcograpic
Because it’s long past time for there to be a woman in that role.
Are you disputing that Trump says a lot of dumb things? Because I can provide cites.
I went back and watched that debate again. Here’s my thoughts on reflection.
It wasn’t a gaffe or just something Biden blurted out. He came into the debate knowing he was making that announcement.
One reason was Biden wanted to slam the door shut on the Medicare 4 all talk. COVID is the threat now and wasting more hot air on fantasy health care plans is pointless.
Biden surely knew that a lot of Democrats wish they’d both sat this out. Having the last two remaining being septuagenarian white men didn’t thrill a lot of the Democratic base. Announcing a woman would be the VP threw the coldest bucket of ice water on a potential Biden//Sanders ticket. It also let voters know that Biden himself knows it’s time to pass the torch to a new generation and when he runs with a woman VP, he’s serious about putting more cracks in the glass ceiling.
Biden told Sanders the primaries are OVER. He’s the nominee and he’s pivoting to the general. The look on Biden’s face after the announcement and the rest of the debate showed that Biden was moving on. No more debates, Bernie can run in as many primaries as he wants but Bernie is going on the ignore list.
Yes, Biden won the night by his announcement. No one in the MSM was talking or writing about M4A and how it might affect COVID as Bernie was talking about it. Veep speculation began that following morning.