Food for thought: Who is the “us” in your statement? Does patriotism, for instance, encourage “us” to work together when “us” means a group including Americans, Russians, Chinese, and Indians? Some would argue that the nations that people are patriotic towards are themselves the “small special interest groups fighting it out for their little causes”.
Back to the OP, when everyone stands up, it’s only polite to ask Jose, in the back row, if he can still see.
This was perplexing to me. We went to SeaWorld some years ago and they did this. My wife and I stayed seated and didn’t sing because it isn’t our anthem (and I don’t even stand for my own) but no-one challenged us on it. Not sure on the etiquette and don’t really care but surely there is no expectation that non-USA citizens should stand and sing in response to an anthem that isn’t their own?
I saw what you did there. 
Now if I was in the UK I WOULD probably stand and sing because, hey, I LIKE the song “God Save the Queen”.
I only wish I knew the words to the best national anthem “La Marseilles”.
Per the US Flag Code, citizens of foreign countries should stand at attention when the US flag is raised or lowered:
Since at most sporting events where the anthem is played the flag is also raised during the song, a foreign national should stand. When in another country, or in the US when the anthem of another country is played, I stand out of courtesy if the citizens stand.
It also helps us unite in opposition to other countries. That’s not a good thing.
And if you think the United States is united and working together, think again.
I’ve never seen the flag actually raised (or lowered) at a sporting event.
“Because we’ve always done it this way” has always seemed to me to be the shabbiest of excuses for not implementing positive change. The anthem before a sports event has seemed an overly jingoistic and unnecessary tradition to me.
It’s not about “America bad.” It’s more “what in the world am I pledging my loyalty to?” I can’t be loyal to a flag, since it can’t actually tell me to do anything, so it’s clearly “to the republic for which it stands.” But what in the world does that mean? What am I actually pledging to do?
Most of the answers I can come up with are either so trivial as to be meaningless, or something I don’t want to promise to be loyal to. I don’t want to go to war for the U.S. I don’t want to be forced to always say America is good or great. I will follow the laws that I have to, but what is special about that? I do not like symbolic patriotism, which has no real meaning.
It’s not that I hate America. It’s that I have no idea what the pledge actually means, and what I can think it means is not what I want to pledge to.
As for the national anthem, I just don’t see why it’s used when we’re not actually doing anything about America. No one goes to games to celebrate America. You go for your team, or to have fun with some friends. So, again, what’s the point?
It’s as weird as the part that has all the military there. Why? Is it symbolic of how we now play these sports for fun instead of getting into battles with each other? If so, why not some peaceful song instead of a song about how America survived a war way back when?
And I do think it causes problems, because why in the world are people so upset that someone wants to do it differently? How can people then connect that with not being patriotic and worthy of having their freedom of speech taken away? If it’s that entrenched, there’s a problem. No tradition (or Tradition) is inviolate.
You ah, do know we are talking about the national anthem here, not the pledge of allegiance…right?
Most of this is just babble, to be honest. You don’t want to go to war for the US? No one is forcing you too. You don’t want to be forced to say that America is good or great? Again…no one is forcing you to. If you are so inclined, just write ‘America sucks’ right now and see what happens. I predict crickets chirping or a few folks chiming in that they agree or disagree with you. No force involved.
Guess what? If you go to a ball game where they play the anthem (again, we aren’t talking about the pledge of allegiance here…just making sure you are following along), you can sit or look at your cell phone or even pick your nose. There is no force involved.
It’s a custom. I know no one seems to have read the links I posted earlier, but you could look it up yourself. Basically, it’s a custom that goes back to the early 1900’s and became more fashionable during WWII. As those sports became more popular then anthem was just another custom. Like the one where we put up a tree for Christmas or scary decorations for Holloween or any of myriad similar customs throughout the world. And it’s one that you can opt out of by simply, you know, not standing up when it’s played. Or taking a knee. Or scratching your nuts or whatever else you want to do or not do.
AFAIK, the military is only there for the really big events like the Superbowl and such, but as I don’t watch much sports maybe I’m wrong about that. As for your questions, no, I don’t think they are there as a symbol that we play games instead of fight battles (man, you really need to share the drugs if you are going to go that far out there :p), and the reason they don’t play a peaceful song instead of the national anthem is probably because, well, it wouldn’t be the national anthem.
Horseshit. Basically, until Trump decided that this was the distraction of the week and tweeted about it the whole thing had mostly died down. Some athletes took a knee or didn’t come out for the anthem, others stood up, most didn’t care. AFAIK, attendance hasn’t changed at all. It’s a big deal right now and causing ‘problems’ (though I’m not seeing it) now because it’s in the news and a bunch of people decided they weren’t going to be pushed around by Trump and decided to make a statement and tell Trump to fuck off. I’m all for that. But you never were forced to stand up for the anthem, and AFAIK a lot of people didn’t or talked through it or just did other stuff and always have.
Cool. But I still could not pronounce it.
I’ll play along. SUPPOSE we just took down the US flags at all the ballparks and stopped singing the national anthem.
Would athletes then just play the game without attempting to make political statements of any kind? If the answer is “yes,” we have something to discuss.
But if the answer is no, if athletes would still try to use their fame to push their causes on the field, where’s the benefit in removing the patriotic trappings?
The benefit is we could discuss the merits of the protest without being derailed into faux outrage about them not loving their country enough.
I’ve said it before and I’ll go on saying it - patriotism of the sort that allows for big fancy multi-million dollar displays is just virtue-signaling.
CNN did an article about the history of playing the Anthem before sporting events. They point out that the Star Spangled Banner was only declared the official National Anthem in 1931. It was used before that, unofficially, although it was approved for use by the Navy during WW1.
The song didn’t really take off at sports events until after WW2, however, when sound systems and recordings of the song became popular. Before that, you’d have needed a live band & singer every time, which gets expensive. Once television and radio took off, playing the anthem became a regular event.
It’s important to note that players didn’t take the field and perform patriotic obesience when the Anthem was played. That only started in 2009 when the Department of Defense started paying the NFL and other sports leagues to hold patriotic displays as advertising for the armed services.
In 2015, John McCain and the Senate Oversight Committee issued a report condemning the practice as fake patriotism and a misuse of taxpayer funds. Ostensibly, the point of these events was to increase recruitment for the Armed Services but in the words of the Oversight Committee’s report -
That report continues that the DoD was paying for everything from on-field displays to “opportunities” for the teams to surprise returning veterans. The report concludes that all of this is just “paid patriotism” and a misuse of taxpayer funds.
(Fucking pdf).
The motivation behind starting all this overblown displays was marketing on the part of the DoD and free taxpayer money on the part of the team owners. This is precisely the sort of thing that gives patriotism a bad name.
The DoD has said they won’t continue to pay for these displays, but it’s impossible to know the full extent of the contracts (something else the Oversight Committee report explains) and it’s popular with the fans, so the teams continue to participate. But there’s no reason why anyone should act like big on-field patriotic displays are some sort of sacred tradition.
Because Trump.
All I can say is that if you are in the US and go to sporting events you need to pay closer attention. It happens at almost every sporting event where the anthem is played. It is usually done by a color guard or scout troop, IME. Sometime a large flag is unfurled on the field, or displayed by a color/honor guard on the field - both of which are the same as raising the flag.
Sometimes, especially at smaller or lower level events, there is a flag already raised. in that case, this rule applies:
I didn’t use that quote before because it does not mention the expected behavior of foreign nationals, which was the specific question in the OP.
So… patriotic Americans who LIKE the flag and the anthem must give up unreservedly, and they STILL have to endure being hectored by left-leaning athletes?
Doesn’t sound like there’s much for the patriots to gain by being reasonable and compromising.
[quote=“astorian, post:58, topic:797303”]
So… patriotic Americans who LIKE the flag and the anthem must give up unreservedly, and they STILL have to endure being hectored by left-leaning athletes?
Doesn’t sound like there’s much for the patriots to gain by being reasonable and compromising.[/QUOTE]
It’s not like that was ever going to be an option
Fuck that. I don’t salute flags of any nation, not my own and certainly that of a foreign nation. (and the notion of an official “flag code” sounds ridiculous to me)
I’ll sit quietly and let those that want to get on with it. It’s like not praying in church.