# So, why haven't Republicans got rid of Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 26, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885 "2017-10-26T12:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/61 "2017-10-27T13:14:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Perhaps they haven’t done it yet because they have more respect for the electoral process than the Left does. [missed edit window] > **[Some Republicans are discussing their plans for President Clinton — starting...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/11/03/no-honeymoon-for-hillary-congressional-republicans-openly-discussing-impeachment/)** > > “It is my honest opinion that the Clinton Foundation represents potentially one of the greatest examples of political corruption in American history,” said Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.), who leads the Constitution and Civil Justice subcommittee. > [@](#): > > Senior Republican lawmakers are openly discussing the prospect of impeaching Hillary Clinton should she win the presidency, a stark indication that partisan warfare over her tenure as secretary of state will not end on Election Day. The respect for the electoral process you’re referring to clearly runs as deep as Trump’s commitment to reducing the deficit and Tim Murphy’s commitment to family values. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/62 "2017-10-27T13:17:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Perhaps they haven’t done it yet because they have more respect for the electoral process than the Left does. I seem to remember someone saying “I’ll accept the results of the election _if I win_” Are you saying he is a leftist? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/63 "2017-10-27T14:12:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > How about Obstruction of Justice, as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 1512 (b)(3)? That’s a crime. How about wait until Mueller’s investigation is over and determine if that is actionable or not? > [@](#): > > In any case, ‘high crimes and misdemeanours’ was, at the time the Constitution was written, understood to include behaviour not compatible with the office, and do not have to be criminal in nature. James Madison believed that impeachment was a remedy for ‘incapacity, negligence, or perfidy’. No, it was considered to be crimes that only a government official could commit. That’s what makes it a “high” crime and not just a “crime”. You and I and Trump can all steal, but you and I can’t accept a bribe in order to get change a regulation. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/64 "2017-10-27T14:45:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How about wait until Mueller’s investigation is over and determine if that is actionable or not? Impeachment is not conviction. What we know so far is that obstruction _appears_ to have happened. That’s enough to bring charges – impeachment – and the President can be convicted or acquitted based on the evidence. Should we wait for Mueller’s investigations to conclude? Yes, the more evidence, the better. But Congress has enough evidence now to impeach (but not necessarily convict) right now. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, it was considered to be crimes that only a government official could commit. That’s what makes it a “high” crime and not just a “crime”. You and I and Trump can all steal, but you and I can’t accept a bribe in order to get change a regulation. [http://www.constitution.org/cmt/high\_crimes.htm](http://www.constitution.org/cmt/high_crimes.htm) > [@](#): > > Under the English common law tradition, crimes were defined through a legacy of court proceedings and decisions that punished offenses not because they were prohibited by statutes, but because they offended the sense of justice of the people and the court. Whether an offense could qualify as punishable depended largely on the obligations of the offender, and the obligations of a person holding a high position meant that some actions, or inactions, could be punishable if he did them, even though they would not be if done by an ordinary person. > > Offenses of this kind survive today in the Uniform Code of Military Justice. It recognizes as punishable offenses such things as perjury of oath, refusal to obey orders, abuse of authority, dereliction of duty, failure to supervise, moral turpitude, and conduct unbecoming. These would not be offenses if committed by a civilian with no official position, but they are offenses which bear on the subject’s fitness for the duties he holds, which he is bound by oath or affirmation to perform. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/65 "2017-10-27T15:04:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Impeachment is not conviction. What we know so far is that obstruction _appears_ to have happened. That’s enough to bring charges – impeachment – and the President can be convicted or acquitted based on the evidence. Should we wait for Mueller’s investigations to conclude? Yes, the more evidence, the better. But Congress has enough evidence now to impeach (but not necessarily convict) right now. No, we don’t know that. You may think you know that, but “we” don’t know that. > [@](#): > > [http://www.constitution.org/cmt/high\_crimes.htm](http://www.constitution.org/cmt/high_crimes.htm) You missed the very first paragraph of your cite: > [@](#): > > The question of impeachment turns on the meaning of the phrase in the Constitution at Art. II Sec. 4, “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors”. I have carefully researched the origin of the phrase “high crimes and misdemeanors” and its meaning to the Framers, and found that the key to understanding it is the word “high”. It does not mean “more serious”. It refers to those punishable offenses that only apply to high persons, that is, to public officials… Note the use of the word “other” in front of high crimes and misdemeanors. That is, “other” like bribery. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/66 "2017-10-27T15:34:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, we don’t know that. You may think you know that, but “we” don’t know that. We know that, for example, Comey was fired, and we know that Trump said he got rid of him because of the Russia investigation. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > You missed the very first paragraph of your cite: > > Note the use of the word “other” in front of high crimes and misdemeanors. That is, “other” like bribery. You missed this part: > [@](#): > > [T]he key to understanding it is the word “high”. It does not mean “more serious”. It refers to those punishable offenses that only apply to high persons, that is, to public officials… Trump is a public official, and therefore subject to impeachment. ‘Other’ also means ‘other’, such as obstruction of justice, malfeasance in office, abuse of power, bringing disrespect to the country, or any other thing Congress may decide. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/67 "2017-10-27T15:38:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Let’s see what happens when they get their tax cuts for the rich out of the way. Right now they have a marriage of convenience, the only thing they really want are those tax cuts and once they have them, they have little that binds them together. Sort of like a married couple staying together for the children and the children grow up and move out. > > My guess is that once the tax cuts are done (and let’s not dignify it with the word “reform”), the Republican donor class will be happy and the Republicans in Congress will be more secure, they can tell Bannon to go suck eggs and Dumb Donald can just cut paper dolls and tweet all day for all they care. I can’t quite follow the reasoning, here; unlike children who grow up and move out and leave behind a married couple who won’t be raising another kid, aren’t taxes something that can come back the moment the Dems come back? Doesn’t it all _have_ to keep holding together, because otherwise their days are numbered and we’re just counting down to President Michelle Obama or whoever instituting who-knows-what? ---
**Author:** ![Caldazar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Caldazar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caldazar)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/68 "2017-10-27T15:44:54Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > So what would have to happen to make “opposing Trump [look] better for GOP re-elections than not opposing him”? Sustained economic depression and high unemployment, war, greatly increased mortality rates and reduction in life expectancy, etc… basically, anything that causes widespread suffering and death while occurring on Trump’s watch, regardless of whether or not Trump himself caused or contributed to the problem. Top candidate would be another Korean War, I suppose. Maybe the opioid problem in the US growing out of control, although drug overdose deaths were around 64,000 in 2016 (estimate) while things like heart disease and cancer kill 600,000 / year, so there’s a really long way to go before the general public starts panicking on this front. Some other black-swan event we don’t see coming. Trumpism is here to stay. You don’t discard a person and an accompanying set of ideas and behaviors that are overwhelming favored (~80%) by the party. Love him or hate him, Trump is the embodiment of the present-day Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/69 "2017-10-27T16:03:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’m quite curious to know what facts you considered in reaching that conclusion. Well, the Left isn’t respectful enough to tidy up its election servers after it’s done with them. It just leaves all that data lying about, whereas the Right clean them all up neatly. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/70 "2017-10-27T16:15:08Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I can’t quite follow the reasoning, here; unlike children who grow up and move out and leave behind a married couple who won’t be raising another kid, aren’t taxes something that can come back the moment the Dems come back? Doesn’t it all _have_ to keep holding together, because otherwise their days are numbered and we’re just counting down to President Michelle Obama or whoever instituting who-knows-what? It’s a lot harder to raise taxes than lower them. Get a Democratic super majority and sure they might be raised a little. The GOP donor class know this and will worry about it if and when that comes to pass. For right now, they’ve told Congress to either cut their taxes or the money supply gets cut off. So the Republican Congress will grit its teeth and work with Satan himself to do the dirty deed but once accomplished, what’s to keep them together? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/71 "2017-10-27T16:19:12Z")
The next demand, whatever that might be. “Start sticking Muslims into concentration camps, please, or we’ll stop funding you.” Could be anything. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/72 "2017-10-27T16:23:30Z")
It’s his party now. If you’re a Republican and you’re waiting for Trump to be rejected by the party, maybe you should consider that the party has rejected you. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/73 "2017-10-27T16:23:40Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > The next demand, whatever that might be. “Start sticking Muslims into concentration camps, please, or we’ll stop funding you.” Could be anything. The big donors don’t give a crap about that. All they care about is the tax cuts. They’ll keep asking for more and as long as any millionaire pays a nickel in taxes they’ll keep it up. But right now their patience is particularly low, they realize that the days of Republican controlled government are limited. So for Republicans the choice is hold your nose and work with the sexual predator to lower taxes and keep your money coming (and still possibly lose your seat) or stand up to Donald and lose the money (and definitely lose your seat). Since Congressmen are incapable of looking beyond the next election, they will choose the former. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/74 "2017-10-27T16:31:42Z")
Okay, then whatever it is they give a crap about. Once taxes are cut, maybe they’ll make demands about offshore tax shelters or having to actually pay employees or something. Point is, the people holding Republican strings have no reason to let them go. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/75 "2017-10-27T17:10:54Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I can’t quite follow the reasoning, here; unlike children who grow up and move out and leave behind a married couple who won’t be raising another kid, aren’t taxes something that can come back the moment the Dems come back? Doesn’t it all _have_ to keep holding together, because otherwise their days are numbered and we’re just counting down to President Michelle Obama or whoever instituting who-knows-what? Taxes can come back, but messing with the tax code is disruptive to the economy. Even just cutting taxes and giving people money is a disruption. Republicans are willing to disrupt the economy every time they get into power by messing around with ta code, but the democrats try to make sure that their actions result in positive impacts on the economy. That means that taxes usually need to be phased in over a longer period of time than they were phased out,m and usually cannot go back to the levels they were before without quite a fight. Combine that with the increase on interest on the debt that we are paying due to those tax cuts, and even bringing them back to the levels they were pre-cut results in less revenue. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/76 "2017-10-27T17:18:06Z")
> [@Caldazar](#): > > Sustained economic depression and high unemployment, war, greatly increased mortality rates and reduction in life expectancy, etc… basically, anything that causes widespread suffering and death while occurring on Trump’s watch, regardless of whether or not Trump himself caused or contributed to the problem. Top candidate would be another Korean War, I suppose. Maybe the opioid problem in the US growing out of control, although drug overdose deaths were around 64,000 in 2016 (estimate) while things like heart disease and cancer kill 600,000 / year, so there’s a really long way to go before the general public starts panicking on this front. Some other black-swan event we don’t see coming. > > Trumpism is here to stay. You don’t discard a person and an accompanying set of ideas and behaviors that are overwhelming favored (~80%) by the party. Love him or hate him, Trump is the embodiment of the present-day Republican Party. Thanks for the reply. 🙂 Theoretically what you’re saying is true. But in cold, hard reality… :dubious: Here’s the crux of the matter: at what point (if any) will Trump voters BLAME TRUMP for bad shit\* that happens on his watch? IOW how long does he have to be in office before they realize it can’t be Obama-Hillary, Congress, ISIS, opiods, the NFL, black/brown people, etc. who have caused his voters’ personal woes? I"m guessing never. He is never responsible for anything bad, and I believe his voters cannot and will not ever be convinced that he is/was. \*Please, someone, throw me a bone and refute that. \* ☹ \*“Sustained economic depression and high unemployment, war, greatly increased mortality rates and reduction in life expectancy, etc…” ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/77 "2017-10-27T19:09:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Thanks for the reply. 🙂 Theoretically what you’re saying is true. But in cold, hard reality… :dubious: > > Here’s the crux of the matter: at what point (if any) will Trump voters BLAME TRUMP for bad shit\* that happens on his watch? IOW how long does he have to be in office before they realize it can’t be Obama-Hillary, Congress, ISIS, opiods, the NFL, black/brown people, etc. who have caused his voters’ personal woes? I"m guessing never. He is never responsible for anything bad, and I believe his voters cannot and will not ever be convinced that he is/was. > > \*Please, someone, throw me a bone and refute that. \* ☹ > \*“Sustained economic depression and high unemployment, war, greatly increased mortality rates and reduction in life expectancy, etc…” I have heard it said that you can fool some of the people all of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/78 "2017-10-27T19:28:35Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I have heard it said that you can fool some of the people all of the time. That reminds me of [this _MAD_ magazine image](https://envisioningtheamericandream.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/mad-magazine-nixon-2-swscan04039.jpg?w=710). ---
**Author:** ![Caldazar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Caldazar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caldazar)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/79 "2017-10-27T19:45:27Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Here’s the crux of the matter: at what point (if any) will Trump voters BLAME TRUMP for bad shit\* that happens on his watch? “Never” sounds about right. If you’re waiting for opposition to come in the form of a large percentage of Republicans denouncing Trump and calling for his impeachment, I think you’ll be waiting for awhile. If shit were really to hit the fan, I imagine the opposition would come in the form of Congressional Republicans ignoring Trump and his wishes, and simply passing their own legislation without input or support from the White House. (I guess we’re about to get a preview of how this may go down, given that the White House has been slow in implementing new sanctions against Russia that Congress passed a couple months back). Then would follow a 2020 primary challenge on the need to change course from the status quo due to the poor state of affairs. Run Congressional and Presidential candidates that have something positive to offer, and you can win voters away from Trump and drive him into irrelevance. Especially if he and Congress continue to flounder on the bigger items like healthcare, jobs and wages, immigration, and the North Korea situation. Offer Trump voters something more enticing, and they’ll bail. Bonus points if the offer is at least loosely-based in reality. But trying to “win” by getting a large percentage of Trump supporters to publicly denounce him? Yeah, not likely. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885/80 "2017-10-27T19:48:42Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > \*Please, someone, throw me a bone and refute that. \* ☹ People usually cling to their choice in elections, paint and used cars because they don’t want to admit they made a mistake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-havent-republicans-got-rid-of-trump/799885.md?page=5)