# So why Palin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 30, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339 "2009-03-30T18:28:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/101 "2009-04-01T01:20:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Things are what they are. **villa** drew from **Shodan’s** remark regarding Obama’s being in charge of the executive branch of government that he was saying the same thing as Obama’s being in charge of the country, and he used the presidents of three other countries as examples of how **Shodan** was wrong. > > Is this forum not dedicated to debate, and is debate not predicated on points actually made and not points intended? If **villa’s** intent was to show that **Shodan** was wrong with regard to the role of the president in the Senate, he should not have used **Shodan’s** perfectly accurate statement that the president is in charge of the executive branch of government in order to do so. > > ETA: Embolden poster name. That’s not true, and not what I said. I looked at **Shodan** ’s inference that presiding over the Senate meant being “in charge of” the Senate, and his remark that “[a] President presides - that’s what the word means.” While I quoted the earlier part as well, that actually was laziness - it is not required for my argument. As I have just said to **Shodan** , I am not interested in the argument as to whether the VP is in charge of the Senate. Just that trying to claim the definition of the word President makes it an open and shut argument is a false one. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/102 "2009-04-01T01:21:08Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I watched Tina Fey say this on _SNL_. It never occured to me that Palin herself actually originated the phrase, though the rather dubious concept that the governor of Alaska had some foreign-policy credibility because of the proximity of Russa _was_ advanced by Palin early on. She’d’ve been better off talking about trade relations with Canada, I figure, and the economic power thereof. Palin did say it was possible to see Russia from Alaska, and did proffer it in the context of trying defend her foreign policy cred. Fey was riffing on that. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/103 "2009-04-01T01:53:52Z")
A depressing amount of what Fey said was straight from Palin’s mouth to hers. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/104 "2009-04-01T02:02:16Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Palin did say it was possible to see Russia from Alaska, and did proffer it in the context of trying defend her foreign policy cred. Fey was riffing on that. I know, but IdahoMauleMan is talking about the exact phrase and assuming that it is widely assumed to be a genuine Palin quote, i.e. look how dumb the lib’ruls are. I just wish I could’ve been one of Palin’s advisors/speechwriters. Though I disagree with much of her politics, I’d’ve considered it a great intellectual exercise to present a conservative viewpoint in an articulate intelligent way. I would have gone with “Life in Alaska is a hard business for hard people, and the remaining 49 states are going to learn that hard times are ahead. Decisions will be made that may not be popular, but will be right. John McCain can make those decisions.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/105 "2009-04-01T09:49:30Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Too funny. I didn’t know that. Google is no help at all on the matter, except that once you eliminate the right-wing bloggers using it in the “hur hur stupid lib’ruls” context, about half the search results say it is or is “probably” apocryphal. I may be misremembering/hallucinating but I recall reading that it started out as a Jules Feiffer cartoon in _The Village Voice_. Take that recollection with as large a grain of salt as you like. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/106 "2009-04-01T15:12:38Z")
I always found the VP question fascinating. While a reasonable(ish) semantics argument could be made that the words she spoke were correct, it presumes a degree of nuance and subtlety — and most importantly — an understanding of civics that Palin showed in no other circumstance. To stick this broken clock on a pike and parade it about the village square as some sort of testament of her competence is the height of buffoonery. Make the case all you want that the precise text of her statement was technically correct. But try and inject your reasoning into the vapidity of her greater context and you just look foolish. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/107 "2009-04-01T15:23:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You must have a different actress playing Palin over there. Over here, she inspires nobody but mouth breathers. Are people in the UK aware that she’s a punchline over here? Yes we are. We know she is a joke. Quartz is coming from the right of the extreme right of the spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/108 "2009-04-01T17:32:00Z")
I might be willing to give Palin a pass on the “in charge of the senate” thing. It was technically incorrect in that the VP isn’t actually “in charge” of anything; John Adams tried being “in charge” of the first senate and they basically told him to sit down and shut the hell up. I understand what she was trying to say, though; that she agreed with Cheney’s view of the VP as not having to comply with executive orders as part of the legislature (and not having to comply with subpoenas as part of the executive branch, neatly enough). I think Cheney’s view is untenable, to put it charitably, but I don’t fault her too much for a gaffe in saying she agreed with it. The Russia thing though, was just a flat out laughable answer. It’s true she never said “I can see Russia from my house,” Tina Fey did, but Tina Fey’s joke was mocking what she actually did say: > [@](#): > > PALIN: And, Charlie, you’re in Alaska. We have that very narrow maritime border between the United States, and the 49th state, Alaska, and Russia. They are our next door neighbors.We need to have a good relationship with them. They’re very, very important to us and they are our next door neighbor. > > GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you? > > PALIN: They’re our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska. > > GIBSON: What insight does that give you into what they’re doing in Georgia? > > PALIN: Well, I’m giving you that perspective of how small our world is and how important it is that we work with our allies to keep good relation with all of these countries, especially Russia. What’s worse, though, is her quote from last month in an interview in _Esquire_. > [@](#): > > You have to let it go. Even hard news sources, credible news sources — the comment about, you can see Russia from Alaska. _You can!_ You can see Russia from Alaska. Something like that — a factual statement that was taken out of context and mocked — what you have to do is let that go. :smack: Governor, the mockery was not over the fact that you claimed that you could see Russia from Alaska. The mockery was over the fact that you claimed that your state’s proximity to Russia gave you foreign policy experience. As someone wittier than I said, I can see the Moon right out my window, but that doesn’t make me an astronaut. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/109 "2009-04-01T18:47:22Z")
She stepped deeper into it right after the Gibson interview, with Couric: > [@](#): > > Couric: You’ve cited Alaska’s proximity to Russia as part of your foreign policy experience. What did you mean by that? > > Sarah Palin: That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and, on our other side, the land-boundary that we have with Canada. It’s funny that a comment like that was kinda made to … I don’t know, you know … reporters. > > Couric: Mocked? > > Palin: Yeah, mocked, I guess that’s the word, yeah. > > Couric: Well, explain to me why that enhances your foreign-policy credentials. > > Palin: Well, it certainly does, because our, our next-door neighbors are foreign countries, there in the state that I am the executive of. And there… > > Couric: Have you ever been involved in any negotiations, for example, with the Russians? > > Palin: We have trade missions back and forth, we do. It’s very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia. As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border. It is from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there, they are right next to our state. Fey simply quoted this verbatim on SNL - that’s all she had to do: > [@](#): > > . . . where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh – it’s got to be all about job creation too. Shoring up our economy, and putting it back on the right track. So healthcare reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade, we’ve got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, um, scary thing, but 1 in 5 jobs being created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that. She now claims the problem was that she didn’t do enough interviews. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/110 "2009-04-01T18:48:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > She now claims the problem was that she didn’t do enough interviews. I completely agree. She _definitely_ did not do enough interviews. I lament the undiscovered opportunities for comedy gold had she. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/111 "2009-04-01T19:12:58Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > I might be willing to give Palin a pass on the “in charge of the senate” thing. It was technically incorrect in that the VP isn’t actually “in charge” of anything; John Adams tried being “in charge” of the first senate and they basically told him to sit down and shut the hell up. I understand what she was trying to say, though; that she agreed with Cheney’s view of the VP as not having to comply with executive orders as part of the legislature (and not having to comply with subpoenas as part of the executive branch, neatly enough). I think Cheney’s view is untenable, to put it charitably, but I don’t fault her too much for a gaffe in saying she agreed with it. > > The Russia thing though, was just a flat out laughable answer. It’s true she never said “I can see Russia from my house,” Tina Fey did, but Tina Fey’s joke was mocking what she actually did say: > > What’s worse, though, is her quote from last month in an interview in _Esquire_. > > :smack: Governor, the mockery was not over the fact that you claimed that you could see Russia from Alaska. The mockery was over the fact that you claimed that your state’s proximity to Russia gave you foreign policy experience. As someone wittier than I said, I can see the Moon right out my window, but that doesn’t make me an astronaut. My God, I can’t think of a better proof for how dumb she really is. She actually doesn’t even GET THE JOKE. She really thinks people were laughing at her because they thought you can’t really see Russia from Alaska? What an idiot. This is the kind of person you mess with by sending her to the store to get a left-handed spatula, not put in charge of nuclear weapons. I so hope the Republicans try to run her in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/112 "2009-04-01T19:40:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My God, I can’t think of a better proof for how dumb she really is. She actually doesn’t even GET THE JOKE. She really thinks people were laughing at her because they thought you can’t really see Russia from Alaska? What an idiot. This is the kind of person you mess with by sending her to the store to get a left-handed spatula, not put in charge of nuclear weapons. I so hope the Republicans try to run her in 2012. Except for the terrible danger that she might actually win. Reagan had the same image with Democrats in the 70s as Palin does today. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/113 "2009-04-01T20:07:57Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Except for the terrible danger that she might actually win. Reagan had the same image with Democrats in the 70s as Palin does today. Exactly. Although Palin isn’t even close to being in the Gipper’s league, either smarts-wise or communication-savvy wise. But she probably wouldn’t run the risk of going senile in the latter part of her 2nd term, if she was elected reasonably soon. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/114 "2009-04-01T20:21:47Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Exactly. > > Although Palin isn’t even close to being in the Gipper’s league, either smarts-wise or communication-savvy wise. But she probably wouldn’t run the risk of going senile in the latter part of her 2nd term, if she was elected reasonably soon. You make her candidacy sound so appealing. 🙂 And if you like brie, be adventurous and try some epoissese de bourgogne. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/115 "2009-04-01T20:22:24Z")
I’ve often been suspicious that McCain just found her (and her folksy, down-home winking)incredibly charming when he had her to his ranch for the (3 day?) interview. I think it was a spur-of-the-moment decision on his part. Mavericky, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/116 "2009-04-01T20:57:30Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Although Palin isn’t even close to being in the Gipper’s league, either smarts-wise or communication-savvy wise. I’m not so sure about either of those. What she lacks is experience, and she’s going to get plenty of that in the next 4-8 years. We’ll see if she learns. If she does, she’ll be a very dangerous opponent in 2012 or 2016 (depending upon how well Obama does). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/117 "2009-04-01T21:29:41Z")
Wow, your perception of both Palin’s abilities and of public perception of her in the US are both wildly miscalibrated. What she lacks, first and foremost, is anything approaching the intellect to be POTUS. As much as people like me ridiculed Bush’s mental capacities, the truth is that he was probably reasonably bright for the most part. His incapacitations came from a chronic inability to articulate himself well, an arrogant incuriosity and a psychological inability to self-evaluate. Now that he’s gone, I can admit that he probably wasn’t actually as dumb as he sometimes appeared to be. Palin, on the other hand, is every bit as dumb as she appears to be and then some. **Pravnik’s** cite above exposes genuine intellectual deficiency on her part. So do her creationist beliefs, for that matter. When you add in the extreme social views, the hypocritical ethics issues, the hypocritical policy issues, the hypocritical attacks on her opponents, the hypocritical patriotic correctness, the crazy religious views, etc. you do not have a recipe for a “dangerous opponent.” Mean and stupid failed to beat Obama last time, it’s not going to do it the next time. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/118 "2009-04-01T21:56:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Wow, your perception of both Palin’s abilities and of public perception of her in the US are both wildly miscalibrated. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/119 "2009-04-01T21:59:38Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m not so sure about either of those. What she lacks is experience, and she’s going to get plenty of that in the next 4-8 years. We’ll see if she learns. If she does, she’ll be a very dangerous opponent in 2012 or 2016 (depending upon how well Obama does). I’ll bet you $500 that she doesn’t get even 5 percent of the vote in New Hampshire in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339/120 "2009-04-01T22:02:34Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Time will tell. Time has already told. Sarah Palin does not have one single problem to deal with in her political career, she has about a dozen, and only one of them (experience) is at all likely to go away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-palin/491339.md?page=7)