# So, why vote for Clinton? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 29, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225 "2016-09-29T18:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/41 "2016-09-29T19:41:43Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > What do you mean? What kind of achievements are you looking for? What sorts of things have past successful presidential candidates achieved, and how was that reflected in their presidencies? > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I don’t understand how it’s possible to read that Wikipedia page and not see tons of achievements. Far more than almost any other person I can think of. Can you explain why you think this? I’m really at a loss here. It’s like you’re arguing that water isn’t wet. > [@msmith537](#): > > Aside from the following, not insignificant, achievements: > Founding the Clinton Foundation > United States Secretary of State > United States Senator > Graduate Yale University Law School > Graduate Wellesley College > Not to mention all the other stuff she was involved in over the years, I’m not really sure what you are looking for as “achievements”. None of these lists of Clinton’s achievements can match the lists of achievements of Kim Jong Un, Vladimir Putin, or Syria’s Assad or Iran’s Ayatollah Khamenei. Why, the people of North Korea sing hymns about Kim’s achievements, they are so impressive! In general, you really do have to wield absolute power in order to amass a truly extraordinary list of achievements; none of this ‘working with others’ stuff or sharing of credit. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Donald tells us she’s been fighting ISIS her entire adult life. That’s an achievement. > He also tells us that she has 30 years experience governing. That’s right from her opponent’s mouth. Yeah, she’s been in sole charge of the USA for 30 years; you’d think she’d have accomplished _more_, what with her dictatorial power over every aspect of the economy, foreign policy, and infrastructure! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/42 "2016-09-29T19:48:57Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I have no intention of appointing myself defender of all thing Clinton, but the time to ask this question would have been at the beginning of the primaries. There simply are no other viable alternatives at this point. Back during the primaries there was another poster, like the OP, from the right who also had problems realizing why one can vote for Clinton: > [@I don't think Hillary can win.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/1): > > It’s March of 2015 [snip] > [@I don't think Hillary can win.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-dont-think-hillary-can-win/716184/1): > > We might then ask, what stances will be the centerpiece of her campaign? What does she care about deeply? What is she willing to fight for, even when it means taking risks? No answers seem forthcoming. If she has a firm commitment to stopping global warming, ending police brutality, balancing the budget, defending civil rights, or doing anything else, she’s not made it clear in either her past actions or her present words. As I replied then: [http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-24/make-no-mistake-hillary-clinton-loves-obamacare](http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-24/make-no-mistake-hillary-clinton-loves-obamacare) > [@](#): > > Across the ideological divide, however, one prospective presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton, was busy embracing the law, as well as the man who’s name is so closely associated with it. > > Clinton, who had tried and failed to push through a single payer healthcare system as First Lady, has defended the Affordable Care Act before, even while acknowledging some of its faults. [http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/225680-clinton-calls-out-climate-deniers](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/225680-clinton-calls-out-climate-deniers) > [@](#): > > “The science of climate change is unforgiving, no matter what the deniers may say, sea levels are rising, ice caps are melting, storms, droughts and wildfires are wreaking havoc,” Clinton said, according to ABC News. > > “The political challenges are also unforgiving, there is no getting around the fact the kind of ambitious response required to effectively combat climate change is going to be a tough sell at home and around the world at a time when so many countries including our own are grappling with slow growth and stretched budgets.” > > But acknowledging the political challenges did not stop Clinton from calling for action. “If we act decisively now we can still head off the most catastrophic consequences,” she said. > > She expressed hope in technological advancements’ ability to make progress on the issue, calling to “dare greatly and lead boldly” in order to “protect our heritage and preserve our future.” > **[Hillary Clinton denounces torture, says ‘yes, black lives matter’](https://www.nydailynews.com/2014/12/17/hillary-clinton-denounces-torture-says-yes-black-lives-matter/)** > > NEW YORK — Hillary Clinton said Tuesday she’s proud to have been part of an administration that worked to ban brutal interrogations and said the U.S. should never condone or practice to… > [@](#): > > During her speech, she declared, “yes, black lives matter,” a mantra of demonstrators around the country who have been protesting recent grand jury decisions not to indict white police officers involved in the deaths of unarmed black men in Ferguson, Missouri, and in New York. > > Clinton, a former U.S. first lady, New York senator and U.S. secretary of state, is viewed as the likely Democratic presidential nominee if she runs. She was honored at the Kennedy organization’s star-studded Ripple of Hope Award ceremony. > **[What Has Hillary Clinton Done? 14 Major Accomplishments](https://www.thoughtco.com/hillary-clinton-s-accomplishments-4101811)** > > What has Hillary Clinton done? She has held integral roles such as First Lady, U.S. Senator, and Secretary of State. > [@](#): > > Clinton’s plan was well-thought out and detailed. She was the only 2008 candidate to advocate a balanced budget. I said then that based on that, I have to say she will get my vote. And even more nowadays as Trump is just bigotry and ignorance of science personified. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/43 "2016-09-29T19:53:00Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > So, why vote for Clinton? > > Trump aside, why should an American vote for Clinton in her own right? > > Trump? We’re ignoring him here; there are other candidates. > She’s a she? Sorry, we’re not sexists here. > Experience? Sure she has experience, but looking at her Wiki page et al she has a conspicuous lack of achievements. Why elect a failure? > > Over to you. (underline added) Why elect a proven liar? Because she is good at it. She excels at it. That is an accomplishment. Hillary was smart enough to destroy 30,000 emails AFTER receiving a subpoena for her records. She’s got that going for her. I’m sure that the people who are sick and tired of the investigations into Hillary’s actions will appreciate Hillary’s future use of Presidential Executive Privilege. Everything a President Hillary does in office will be legal and, of course, none of the public’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/44 "2016-09-29T19:55:29Z")
She’s qualified and experienced. She’s as honest as any other politician, and more honest than her opponent. She won’t change much in 4 or 8 years, and the country will have a chance to elect someone better. If Trump is elected, I can’t say this is true. I’m with her. I guess. Oh way, Trump is her opponent. I’m with her! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/45 "2016-09-29T20:01:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (underline added) > > Why elect a proven liar? Because she is good at it. She excels at it. That is an accomplishment. > > Hillary was smart enough to destroy 30,000 emails AFTER receiving a subpoena for her records. She’s got that going for her. I’m sure that the people who are sick and tired of the investigations into Hillary’s actions will appreciate Hillary’s future use of Presidential Executive Privilege. Everything a President Hillary does in office will be legal and, of course, none of the public’s business. Even this is moot as everyone should realize that if Hillary attempts that email thing during office that she will suffer the same fate as Nixon. Not likely as all the eyes of the Republicans and even the government offices will keep an eye on her and with new rules. By contrast Trump is a colossal minefield of conflict of interests and disregard for rules and regulations. And that is just for the items that we are aware of, there are many more being found. [http://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2016/09/report-trump-violated-cuba-embargo-105927](http://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2016/09/report-trump-violated-cuba-embargo-105927) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/46 "2016-09-29T20:18:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Well then, what has she actually achieved? What exactly do you consider to be an “achievement” of the type you expect in a candidate for office? What achievements have ANY past presidents had before being elected - other than having been elected to other offices, gaining the respect of various groups, and developing a certain reputation? ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/47 "2016-09-29T20:18:54Z")
if your post starts off by asking what a 2-term senator and Sec. of State has accomplished then you aren’t asking a serious questions. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/48 "2016-09-29T20:21:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > They are here illegally. What’s the point of borders and the concept of nation-states if the nature of the nation is not protected. The nature of the nation? Whaddya mean, white people who speak English? Because that’s not the nature of the nation I see. I see that we’re a nation of immigrants. I see that our best-loved national symbol, the Statue of Liberty, is explicitly dedicated to welcoming immigrants. I see that we’re built by a polyglot collection of folks who leave everything behind to come here and make a new life for themselves. I see new immigrants as preserving our nation’s nature. If you really need to know what the point of borders is if not to protect the “nature of the nation,” lemme know, but I suspect that question was meant rhetorically and is a worthless question. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/49 "2016-09-29T20:24:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Even this is moot as everyone should realize that if Hillary attempts that email thing during office that she will suffer the same fate as Nixon. If Hillary shines a halo over her head every day and never steps out of line, she’ll face half a dozen articles of impeachment before she’s finished with the oath of office. Which is another reason to vote for her: no nectar is as sweet as the tears of petulant Tea-Partiers :). ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/50 "2016-09-29T20:30:19Z")
Perhaps the OP should tell us which current Presidential candidates have achieved _more_ than Ms Clinton. (You may count nominees from the minor parties–although they really do not count in the US system.) Or–how about the also-rans who _didn’t_ get nominated this time? In either party. Start listing\* their\* achievements, please. Let’s see whether she measures up. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/51 "2016-09-29T20:40:14Z")
I don’t feel compelled to sell someone on a particular candidate; it’s everyone’s civic duty to understand the issues and make the best decision based on the likely consequences of that outcome of the election. There are no do-overs. We can’t unlike the candidates and upload someone else. People naively want an agent of “change” that they’re simply not going to get no matter who they elect – that’s not really the fault of the system. The system works fine when people are educated and hold congress, governors, and legislatures accountable on their end instead of waiting every four years to vote for some superman. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/52 "2016-09-29T20:40:47Z")
As someone who would be voting for Johnson if a non-crazy republican was running (that is, I’m only voting for Hillary to oppose a Trump victory), I think the OP is absurd. She has been a successful establishment politician for a long time, winning numerous major elections and filling appointed positions that require significant work and ability (Secretary of State is not just an honorary position). I don’t like her because she’s a corrupt established Democrat who’s real loyalty is to big money and not to any of the positions she espouses, but to claim that she has no accomplishments and is just riding Bill Clinton’s coattails has no basis in reality. Actually, if she has been successfully riding the coattails of a president who ended his run with significant scandal for the past two decades, that in itself would be a pretty significant accomplishment. Turning the small “I’m also named Clinton” boost into two decades of successful national scale elections and appointments would be no mean feat! ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/53 "2016-09-29T20:46:43Z")
**adaher** , interestingly enough, [gives a damn good summary](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=805813). [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=450738) was my own somewhat similar post from 2008. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/54 "2016-09-29T20:53:25Z")
SCHIP and the Iran deal are obvious ones. Conservatives don’t like them them of course, but those are the sorts of things her supporters like to see. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Even this is moot as everyone should realize that if Hillary attempts that email thing during office that she will suffer the same fate as Nixon. You can get away with it if you [delete millions.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/55 "2016-09-29T20:55:37Z")
Another reason to vote for Hillary: Supreme Court. I’d truly hate to see what a Trump SCOTUS would make the country look like for the next 20-40 years. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/56 "2016-09-29T21:03:43Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > What exactly do you consider to be an “achievement” of the type you expect in a candidate for office? > > What achievements have ANY past presidents had before being elected - other than having been elected to other offices, gaining the respect of various groups, and developing a certain reputation? God. _Thank_ you. This is the point I came into this thread to make. I don’t recall _any_ male candidate being grilled about what their “achievements” were when they ran for office. Not Obama, not Romney, not McCain, not Kerry, not Gore – and certainly not Bush. I often wished they were, but they weren’t. Makes me wonder why Hillary’s “achievements” are so important, when no one else’s were. That said, her achievements over a 30-year career in public service have been numerous, as indicated by others in this thread. And of course it’s worth remembering that she has never been solely in charge. I find it odd that she is held solely responsible for the missteps of the Obama administration, few though they were in my opinion, but is simultaneously given no credit for what she did accomplish on her own steam within the framework of the offices she held. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/57 "2016-09-29T21:07:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Trump aside, why should an American vote for Clinton in her own right? > > Trump? We’re ignoring him here; there are other candidates. > She’s a she? Sorry, we’re not sexists here. > Experience? Sure she has experience, but looking at her Wiki page et al she has a conspicuous lack of achievements. Why elect a failure? > > Over to you. She is a lot better than this Republican presidential candidate who was a one-term congressman and a failed senatorial candidate. You know, Abraham Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![Stalky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@Stalky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stalky)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/58 "2016-09-29T21:15:19Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yeah, she’s been in sole charge of the USA for 30 years; you’d think she’d have accomplished _more_, what with her dictatorial power over every aspect of the economy, foreign policy, and infrastructure! I just momentarily considered how much of a difference this would have made in economic inequality and overall social fairness and now I’m sad. So thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/59 "2016-09-29T21:15:45Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Her tax and economic policy is whack. Driving more companies offshore to save money on wages and taxes is stupid. She only advocates these counterproductive economic policies because her voting base is too stupid to know better. If she were honest she’d continue advocating for trade instead of shifting positions merely for political reasons. Turning a blind eye towards illegal immigration strictly because the demographics favor her political party is corrupt and myopic. If you had been here longer I’d check up on your economic predictions in 2009. Clinton’s economic policies seem similar to Obama’s - you know, the ones that have cut unemployment, helped the stock market to soar, finally raise wages on the lower end (seemingly due to MW increases) and other horrors. Compare to 8 years of Republican economic policy. Manufacturing is actually stronger in the US now. Manufacturing jobs aren’t, but if you think that if companies were forced to bring manufacturing back they wouldn’t automate up the wazoo you are nuts. Some companies don’t automate in the Far East because workers are cheaper than machines there. We might have an equal number of jobs here if we paid a few bucks a day in wages. Is that what you want? > [@](#): > > Technologically she’s a dolt. She thinks you wipe a server with a cloth or a Sham-Wow. If she were running for sysadmin this would be a real concern. At least she can accept science. I don’t think Trump even does email. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/60 "2016-09-29T21:25:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yes they are. Off shoring and illegal immigration with under the table pay doesn’t occur for no reason. Those are direct consequences of counterproductive policy. The rust belt is called that for a reason. What policy caused off-shoring? Many years ago a lot of industry moved from the north to the south because wages were cheaper there, and there were anti-union laws. The same jobs moved to China because wages were cheaper there and laws protecting workers were even weaker or nonexistent. Jobs moved under Bush also. He wasn’t responsible. Illegal immigration happens because the US is more attractive than other countries. Guess those who risk their lives to come don’t think we are a hellhole after all. Pretty much the same reason my great grandfathers came. Legally then, but it was much easier 130 years ago. A bunch of engineers at my old job went back to India, where we have a design center. They took a 50% pay cut but I suspect they are relatively better off. It is one world now, like it or not. Deal with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225.md?page=4)