# So, why vote for Clinton? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 29, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225 "2016-09-29T18:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/61 "2016-09-29T21:26:20Z")
> [@Stalky](#): > > I just momentarily considered how much of a difference this would have made in economic inequality and overall social fairness and now I’m sad. > So thanks! Sorry about that. But, yeah: that _is_ an alternate universe worth contemplating. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/62 "2016-09-29T21:44:50Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yes they are. Off shoring and illegal immigration with under the table pay doesn’t occur for no reason. Those are direct consequences of counterproductive policy. The rust belt is called that for a reason. > > And this isn’t about Trump’s supporters. There are 20 or so threads making fun of them already. Fwiw, I’d happily support a law that imposes crippling fines on businesses that hire illegal immigrants, thus undercutting American labour. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/63 "2016-09-29T21:45:46Z")
For starters, she’s managed to be a Washington insider for over two decades without being involved in any scandals. That’s pretty impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/64 "2016-09-29T21:47:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Her policy stances are superior. She’s the only one who wants to raise the minimum wage, improve the ACA and move towards universal health care, reduce the need to be in debt for an education, reform the justice system, evolve the economy to deal with climate change, change income tax rates to be closer to the 90s rates, support women’s rights and improve women’s health, defend voting rights, nominate progressive and reasonable SCOTUS justices (and lower court judges), provide reasonable immigration reform including “amnesty” and a path to citizenship, not pointlessly antagonize Muslims and immigrants, and more, while also having a lot of experience in government. As to the OP"s question, this is the more or less correct answer. The _zeitgeist_ has shifted leftward and Clinton is running on a respectably progressive platform on bread and butter socioeconomic issues. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/65 "2016-09-29T22:04:19Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Four more achievements. Really? And what has she done with those positions? What has she achieved with those offices? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/66 "2016-09-29T22:10:17Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > She is the most qualified person in the field. > > No other reason is required. ^ This. Also, I find jumping off of cliffs abhorrent, both for myself and for my country. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/67 "2016-09-29T22:19:05Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Really? And what has she done with those positions? What has she achieved with those offices? Several important things, including: > **[After My 'Terrible' Fox News Fail, I'm Ready To Defend Hillary Clinton's Record](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/confession-of-a-fox-news-flunky-hillary-clinton-was_b_5797af58e4b0e339c23fae51)** > > Judge Pirro asked me a question that I didn’t know was coming. > [@](#): > > TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND TRAINING > The Problem: The government predicted that the country would face a teacher shortage of 2.2 million people by 2011. > The Fix: Prescribe and fund the recruitment and training of teachers around the country to make up the shortfall. > > Her Work: Hillary Clinton authored a bill on teacher recruitment and training. > > The Result: Result: Became part of the law under No Child Left Behind (PL 107-110). > > Bipartisan Alert: Signed into law by Republican president George W. Bush. > [@](#): > > KIDS’ MEDICATION TESTED FOR KIDS > The Problem: Drug companies refused to test drugs on kids, making for dangerous situations. Kids died or had dangerous reactions to drugs made for adults but dosed to children. > The Fix: Empower the FDA to compel drug companies to do drug tests for kids before prescribing them to kids. > Her Work: Hillary Clinton co-authored and introduced the bill. > The Result: The Pediatric Research Equity Act of 2003 became law (PL 108-155). > Continuity Alert: This extended work done in the Clinton administration, which established the push to get drug companies to test - carefully - drugs prescribed for children on children before rolling out to the market. > Bipartisan Alert: The bill was signed into law by Republican president George W. Bush. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/68 "2016-09-29T22:43:55Z")
nvm ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/69 "2016-09-29T22:47:06Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I don’t recall _any_ male candidate being grilled about what their “achievements” were when they ran for office. I agree with the thrust of your message, but both Obama and Bernie were criticized for lack of achievements, at least in these sort of online discussions. Bernie supporters pushed the idea of him being the Amendment King and had ready made lists whenever the discussion came up. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/70 "2016-09-29T23:08:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The nature of the nation? Whaddya mean, white people who speak English? Is that what I said? The nature of the nation is a derivative of the people of the nation. It’s silly to think any nation won’t be altered by unlimited illegal immigration. Which is why every country on this planet has some form of immigration law and policy. You don’t think if China was on our border and 80+ million immigrated across the nation’s character wouldn’t change? [/quote] > [@](#): > > Because that’s not the nature of the nation I see. I see that we’re a nation of immigrants. I see that our best-loved national symbol, the Statue of Liberty, is explicitly dedicated to welcoming immigrants. I see that we’re built by a polyglot collection of folks who leave everything behind to come here and make a new life for themselves. I see new immigrants as preserving our nation’s nature. That’s swell. But even when receiving that statue and after the US still tried to restrict immigration to manageable amounts. Why? Because it’s on the nation’s best interest to only accommodate a finite number that can be assimilated. Otherwise you have the Texas situation and the Crimea situation. Where a local majority or large local minority agitates for new borders. > [@](#): > > If you really need to know what the point of borders is if not to protect the “nature of the nation,” lemme know, but I suspect that question was meant rhetorically and is a worthless question. And yes what is the point of borders if they aren’t going to be defended? The real reason that the left is in favor of unrestricted immigration is they feel that this will result in a permanent set of favorable demographics. Well, in the long term that won’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/71 "2016-09-29T23:09:46Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > I agree with the thrust of your message, but both Obama and Bernie were criticized for lack of achievements, at least in these sort of online discussions. Bernie supporters pushed the idea of him being the Amendment King and had ready made lists whenever the discussion came up. In the case of Obama, I agree there were legitimate concerns, but they weren’t often raised. As for Bernie, anyone who bothered to review his legislative record would easily see that Bernie was a constant and consistent advocate for his issues and causes – again, _within the framework of the offices he has held_. By that measure alone, Trump has no leg to stand on. As a private citizen, he contributed little over his 70 years on this planet to better the circumstances of US citizens. By comparison, Hillary’s achievements tower over anything he can offer. For anyone – including Trump – to attempt to claim equivalency here is, to me, laughable. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/72 "2016-09-29T23:18:42Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Fwiw, I’d happily support a law that imposes crippling fines on businesses that hire illegal immigrants, thus undercutting American labour. Good luck with that. Plus with global telecommunications and giant container ships you can easily undercut American labor without illegal immigration. That said, carrots and fruit aren’t going to pick themselves so let’s all turn a blind eye. The American consumer gives 0 cares about the American worker. People honestly think everyone in this nation has the brain power to be a high paid STEM or health care worker? What are the 50% of the nation that have 100 or below IQ going to do to compete in a global market? This is a large part of the discontent felt towards globalization. Due to regulatory policy a LARGE portion of American workers aren’t competitive at the legal wage. The thing is, Mrs. Clinton is going to be good for business. There is no doubt about that. She will say leftish things to placate the Bernie Bros but she will govern center right. The only question is how is she going to get the US to ratify the TPP. That will signal what she really thinks. You folks honestly think Mrs. Clinton is going to enact progressive policy? With a Republican congress? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/73 "2016-09-29T23:24:35Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Is that what I said? The nature of the nation is a derivative of the people of the nation. It’s silly to think any nation won’t be altered by unlimited illegal immigration. Which is why every country on this planet has some form of immigration law and policy. You don’t think if China was on our border and 80+ million immigrated across the nation’s character wouldn’t change? I’m not sure if anyone is advocating for literally “unlimited” immigration of any sort. As to the nature of our nation, it has nothing to do with ethnicity, or religion, or even language. I think the liberal position on immigration will improve the “nature of the nation” significantly, by bringing great would-be Americans into the open to take part fully in the society they already live in. > [@](#): > > The real reason that the left is in favor of unrestricted immigration is they feel that this will result in a permanent set of favorable demographics. Well, in the long term that won’t work. I already addressed this. Do you think I’m lying? Am I just the only liberal who feels the way I do? It bugs me endlessly when a liberal tells a conservative (or vice versa) why they feel a certain way about an issue _and they don’t believe it_. No, it’s not about “favorable demographics” (or at most that’s a small part of it) – it’s that there are millions of potentially wonderful Americans hiding in the shadows in the country, and they are hard working and decent, and the country will be much improved when we can bring them out in the open to be proud American citizens. Conservatives know more about why conservatives believe certain things. It’s the same for liberals – we really do know better why we support certain issues. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/74 "2016-09-29T23:42:06Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Really? And what has she done with those positions? What has she achieved with those offices? It seems like you aren’t really interested in the answer to this question since you’re asking it after it has been answered in many posts in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/75 "2016-09-29T23:45:18Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It seems like you aren’t really interested in the answer to this question since you’re asking it after it has been answered in many posts in this thread. I’m getting the same vibe. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/76 "2016-09-29T23:49:22Z")
Heck, I’d vote for her just based on the quality of her opponents. And I don’t mean the people running against her. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/77 "2016-09-29T23:54:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m not sure if anyone is advocating for literally “unlimited” immigration of any sort. As to the nature of our nation, it has nothing to do with ethnicity, or religion, or even language. I think the liberal position on immigration will improve the “nature of the nation” significantly, by bringing great would-be Americans into the open to take part fully in the society they already live in. That’s fine but how often are we going to have amnesties or special considerations for 10’s of millions of unlawful inhabitants? Sure, up the numbers that can come over legally or something if that’s the wish. But de-facto open borders is bad policy. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I already addressed this. Do you think I’m lying? Am I just the only liberal who feels the way I do? It bugs me endlessly when a liberal tells a conservative (or vice versa) why they feel a certain way about an issue _and they don’t believe it_. No, it’s not about “favorable demographics” (or at most that’s a small part of it) – it’s that there are millions of potentially wonderful Americans hiding in the shadows in the country, and they are hard working and decent, and the country will be much improved when we can bring them out in the open to be proud American citizens. Conservatives know more about why conservatives believe certain things. It’s the same for liberals – we really do know better why we support certain issues. Admittedly, it’s a broad brush. But you put too much stock into needing to be part of a group to understand the group. First of all, neither side is a hive mind. Liberal A and liberal B probably have differing reasons why they feel what they feel. You know what you know but your ability to know what motivates anyone else isn’t heightened or diminished based upon party registration. You honestly think that a socially conservative black pastor who votes (D) is anything more than an ally of convenience with not much shared thought with a flaming LGBQTx (in case I missed a letter) activist? That pastor and the activist don’t have any great insights into each other points of view. They just know they need each other politically to got ahold of some pork. It’s like saying you know what the pope and every other Catholic thinks because you may be Catholic. It doesn’t work that way. Each person has their own motivations. That said, and even if it doesn’t apply to you, the left is salivating about having another large demographic they can manipulate. Kudos to the left though for associating the idea of border control with xenophobia. The race card evidently still works. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/78 "2016-09-30T00:05:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s fine but how often are we going to have amnesties or special considerations for 10’s of millions of unlawful inhabitants? Sure, up the numbers that can come over legally or something if that’s the wish. But de-facto open borders is bad policy. Who is advocating for open borders? We should have a controlled border. We should legalize all non-criminal undocumented workers in the US who want to stay, while charging them for the privilege, and offer them a chance towards citizenship. > [@](#): > > Admittedly, it’s a broad brush. But you put too much stock into needing to be part of a group to understand the group. First of all, neither side is a hive mind. Liberal A and liberal B probably have differing reasons why they feel what they feel. You know what you know but your ability to know what motivates anyone else isn’t heightened or diminished based upon party registration. You honestly think that a socially conservative black pastor who votes (D) is anything more than an ally of convenience with not much shared thought with a flaming LGBQTx (in case I missed a letter) activist? That pastor and the activist don’t have any great insights into each other points of view. They just know they need each other politically to got ahold of some pork. > > It’s like saying you know what the pope and every other Catholic thinks because you may be Catholic. It doesn’t work that way. Each person has their own motivations. That said, and even if it doesn’t apply to you, the left is salivating about having another large demographic they can manipulate. I don’t know what every liberal thinks – I’m just disputing your broad brush statement about what liberals want. Maybe that’s the prime motivation of some Democrats in office (though some of them are undoubtedly human and might have human feelings about these sorts of issues), but I don’t believe it is for the left at large. > [@](#): > > Kudos to the left though for associating the idea of border control with xenophobia. The race card evidently still works. This has nothing to do with anything I said. Kudos for slipping in an unrelated general attack on the left. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/79 "2016-09-30T01:52:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Kudos to the left though for associating the idea of border control with xenophobia. The race card evidently still works. There’s no clamor for a wall along the \*Canadian \*border, is there? OK, among Canadians, there may be. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/80 "2016-09-30T02:03:28Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > …That’s swell. But even when receiving that statue and after the US still tried to restrict immigration to manageable amounts. Why? Because it’s on the nation’s best interest to only accommodate a finite number that can be assimilated. Otherwise you have the Texas situation and the Crimea situation. Where a local majority or large local minority agitates for new borders… As a Texan, I’d like more info on “The Texas Situation.” Details, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225.md?page=5)