# So, why vote for Clinton? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 29, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225 "2016-09-29T18:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/81 "2016-09-30T02:05:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s no clamor for a wall along the \*Canadian \*border, is there? > > OK, among Canadians, there may be. Do we have 20 million or so “undocumented” Canadians living in the US? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/82 "2016-09-30T02:06:42Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > As a Texan, I’d like more info on “The Texas Situation.” Details, please. History books are cheap. How did Texas become part of the US instead of Mexico? How did Crimea become part of Russia? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/83 "2016-09-30T02:08:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s no clamor for a wall along the \*Canadian \*border, is there? > > OK, among Canadians, there may be. You forgot [Scott Walker.](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/30/walker-says-wall-along-canadian-border-worth-reviewing.html) > [@](#): > > Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker is putting a new twist on the topic of securing the border, a staple among the GOP candidates running for president, by pointing north. > > Walker said in an interview that aired Sunday that building a wall along the country’s northern border with Canada is a legitimate issue that merits further review. > > Republican candidates for president have often taken a get-tough approach on deterring illegal immigration, but they usually focus on the border with Mexico. Walker was asked Sunday morning on NBC’s “Meet the Press” whether he wanted to build a wall on the northern border, too. **Walker said some people in New Hampshire have asked the campaign about the topic.** Many people are talking about it. Many, many people. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/84 "2016-09-30T02:18:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Do we have 20 million or so “undocumented” Canadians living in the US? We don’t have 20 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. FWIW, [Canadian Immigrants Lead [the] World In Illegal U.S. Visa Overstays, According To First-Ever DHS Estimates](http://www.latintimes.com/canadian-immigrants-lead-world-illegal-us-visa-overstays-according-first-ever-dhs-367906). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/85 "2016-09-30T02:20:33Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Do we have 20 million or so “undocumented” Canadians living in the US? [More than you might think](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/31/scott-walkers-u-s-canada-border-wall-would-stop-literally-hundreds-of-illegal-immigrants/). How many before we take action to stop the flood of snowbacks? And make Canada pay for it? The point was about Trump’s race-baiting, as you’ll recall. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/86 "2016-09-30T02:28:05Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > History books are cheap. How did Texas become part of the US instead of Mexico? How did Crimea become part of Russia? None of the Mexicans who’ve moved to Texas have any sentimental longing for the government of Mexico. Music, food, culture–sure. Those crooks in PRI? That’s why they left. You known fuck all about Texas history. Or the reality of Texas today. (We _do_ have some damned annoying Republicans.) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/87 "2016-09-30T06:04:55Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > None of the Mexicans who’ve moved to Texas have any sentimental longing for the government of Mexico. Music, food, culture–sure. Those crooks in PRI? That’s why they left. > > You known fuck all about Texas history. Or the reality of Texas today. (We _do_ have some damned annoying Republicans.) Reading comprehension yo! How did Texas become part of the USA? The point is too many folks from one country near the border can result in problems. If you needed a more recent example I also gave Crimea and Russia. Thankfully the Baltic states have NATO otherwise we might see more annexations. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/88 "2016-09-30T06:09:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [More than you might think](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/31/scott-walkers-u-s-canada-border-wall-would-stop-literally-hundreds-of-illegal-immigrants/). How many before we take action to stop the flood of snowbacks? And make Canada pay for it? > > The point was about Trump’s race-baiting, as you’ll recall. > **[Illegal immigration to the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States)** > > Illegal immigration, or unauthorized immigration, occurs when foreign nationals, known as aliens, violate US immigration laws by entering the United States unlawfully, or by lawfully entering but then remaining after the expiration of their visas, parole or temporary protected status. > July 2024 data for border crossings showed the lowest level of border crossing since September 2020. Between 2007-2018, visa overstays have accounted for a larger share of the growth in the illegal immigrant p... According to this it’s a 10-1 ratio between Mexican and Canadian. If we add others that also come across the southern border it seems like that would be the place to focus efforts. And a wall is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/89 "2016-09-30T06:56:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Good luck with that. Plus with global telecommunications and giant container ships you can easily undercut American labor without illegal immigration. That said, carrots and fruit aren’t going to pick themselves so let’s all turn a blind eye. Obviously you do need some penalties for offshoring etc. While the US shouldn’t try to preserve every cheap consumer goods industry here necessarily, it should certainly seek to preserve the heavy industrial core of modern civilization (steel, automobiles, airplanes, ships etc.). Ultimately, though, more American blue-collars jobs have been lost to automation then either offshoring or illegal immigration. As for farm labour, enough willing citizens probably will be found were the job unionized and well paid. > [@](#): > > The American consumer gives 0 cares about the American worker. People honestly think everyone in this nation has the brain power to be a high paid STEM or health care worker? What are the 50% of the nation that have 100 or below IQ going to do to compete in a global market? Of course the American consumer cares about the American workers because _they are the same person_. And it’s precisely because not everybody get be in STEM or the professions that we need to ensue that every American worker meets a minimum standard of living through labour regulations and government social welfare programs. [Michael Lind](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/opinion/sunday/can-you-have-a-good-life-if-you-dont-have-a-good-job.html?_r=0) has an excellent article on this in the Times. > [@](#): > > This is a large part of the discontent felt towards globalization. Due to regulatory policy a LARGE portion of American workers aren’t competitive at the legal wage. That’s questionable at best-studies on inconclusive on the effects of a moderately higher minimum wage. > [@](#): > > The thing is, Mrs. Clinton is going to be good for business. There is no doubt about that. She will say leftish things to placate the Bernie Bros but she will govern center right. The only question is how is she going to get the US to ratify the TPP. That will signal what she really thinks. > > You folks honestly think Mrs. Clinton is going to enact progressive policy? With a Republican congress? I don’t think she’d govern anymore rightward then Obama simply due to the nature of the Democratic coalition at this point in time. There has been a distinct leftward shift in the party in the last few years which has resulted in Obama abandoning attempts (for example) at pursuing a “Grand Bargain”. As for TPP, you forget that there is a good chunk of the Tea Party and paleocons in the House opposed to the trade bill so progressive Democrats will presumably ally with them in Congress on that particular occasion. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/90 "2016-09-30T10:40:04Z")
**Enough!** Take the hijacks about Trump, Canadian or Mexican immigration, and other unrelated topics to their own threads. Stick to the discussion regarding the reasons to vote for Clinton. \*\* [/Moderating]\*\* ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/91 "2016-09-30T10:58:05Z")
The reason to vote for Clinton is that she’ll do the better job for us of either of the two possibilities. How is that not enough? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/92 "2016-09-30T11:58:07Z")
But even if Trump wasn’t on the ticket, the Republican Party represents anti-intellectualism, climate change denial, racism, enforced Christianity, and the oppression of women. A vote for Hillary is a rejection of all those dark forces. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/93 "2016-09-30T13:00:28Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > She has a lot of _credentials_, so I suppose that equals qualified in some people’s minds. Well, yes. By definition a “credential” is “a qualification, achievement, personal quality, or aspect of a person’s background, typically when used to indicate that they are suitable for something.” -The Dictionary I mean, it’s not as impressive as “credentials” like inheriting a lot of money to start a business or being “someone I’d sit down and have a beer with”. > [@octopus](#): > > You folks honestly think Mrs. Clinton is going to enact progressive policy? With a Republican congress? I question a lot of Clinton’s policies. With Trump, I question his sanity. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/94 "2016-09-30T13:10:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Her tax and economic policy is whack. Driving more companies offshore to save money on wages and taxes is stupid. She only advocates these counterproductive economic policies because her voting base is too stupid to know better. If she were honest she’d continue advocating for trade instead of shifting positions merely for political reasons. Turning a blind eye towards illegal immigration strictly because the demographics favor her political party is corrupt and myopic. > > Technologically she’s a dolt. She thinks you wipe a server with a cloth or a Sham-Wow. > > Being the most qualified ever and getting whomped by a young senator was sad. Clinton was rather substantially less qualified in 2008. That said, this “most qualified ever” thing is silly. She is fairly well qualified for a Presidential candidate but people are going a little overboard. She is certainly no more qualified than Al Gore, or George H.W. Bush, or, arguably, John McCain or Bob Dole. If you consider Joe Biden a “candidate” in this cycle she’s no more qualified than he. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/95 "2016-09-30T14:52:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Obama had less experience. > > I think Reagan and Bush Jr. had less experience. In fact, perhaps the only contemporary president to rival Hillary in qualifications and experience would be George H.W. Bush. So a couple things. Recent ~= “ever” She is the most qualified “candidate” ever so you need to compare he qualifications to other candidates. How would she compare to McCain (House and Senate 1982-Present) or Al Gore (Senator + VP). Dems discounted the whole “experience” thing when Obama was running the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/96 "2016-09-30T18:33:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I would say having a close relationship with a long term governor, and long term president, founding Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, an appointment by president Carter to the Legal Services Corporation, being appointed to the chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee in Arkansas, being named chair of the Arkansas Education Standards Committee, starting the Arkansas’s Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth, working as the chair of the New World Foundation, the first chair of the American Bar Association’s Commission on Women in the Profession, serving on the boards of Arkansas Children’s Hospital Legal Services and Children’s Defense Fund, various corporate boards, counts as some political experience. So what’s the point? I’m sure many candidate in the past have done similar things and more. So are the goalposts now that we consider everything Clinton has done outside of elected life while ignoring the same for everyone else and thus she is the most experienced candidate ever? Mitt Romney Graduated cum laude from Harvard Law School Led Bain & Company Bishop of his LDS ward Co-president of his LDS Mission President of the BYU Boosters President of SLC Olympic Organizing Committee While Governor of Mass and successfully implemented Health Care reform (unlike HilllaryCare) What of that counts as political experience? FTR: serving as a chair or on a board does not automatically count as political experience IMO. Now if you claim all of that counts as public administration experience I would agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/97 "2016-09-30T18:45:30Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So what’s the point? I’m sure many candidate in the past have done similar things and more. So are the goalposts now that we consider everything Clinton has done outside of elected life while ignoring the same for everyone else and thus she is the most experienced candidate ever? > > Mitt Romney > Graduated cum laude from Harvard Law School > Led Bain & Company > Bishop of his LDS ward > Co-president of his LDS Mission > President of the BYU Boosters > President of SLC Olympic Organizing Committee > While Governor of Mass and successfully implemented Health Care reform (unlike HilllaryCare) > > What of that counts as political experience? FTR: serving as a chair or on a board does not automatically count as political experience IMO. Now if you claim all of that counts as public administration experience I would agree with you. Certainly being governor and president of the Olympic Committee count as political experience. Probably leading Bain & Company counts as well. I don’t know how political LDS Missions are, so I have no comment about that. I have no idea at all that this might have to do with a why-vote-for-Hillary thread. Did you mean to post that in GQ? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/98 "2016-09-30T19:33:02Z")
She is running against a fool that even the GOP doesn’t want, that conservative newspapers won’t endorse, that needs to have staffers tase him and sit on his chest until his urge to tweet leaves him. Christ, ain’t enough? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/99 "2016-09-30T19:49:00Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > God. _Thank_ you. This is the point I came into this thread to make. I don’t recall _any_ male candidate being grilled about what their “achievements” were when they ran for office. Not Obama, …, not Kerry, not Gore … So clearly you never watch Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225/100 "2016-09-30T22:12:26Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It seems like you aren’t really interested in the answer to this question since you’re asking it after it has been answered in many posts in this thread. You’re wrong. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m getting the same vibe. As are you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-vote-for-clinton/767225.md?page=6)