# So why was Ammonius Saccus banned? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438 "2006-12-24T14:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/241 "2006-12-28T14:29:31Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Now I am lumped in with **Polycarp** and **Liberal** , which is all to the good. And two trolls, which isn’t. I gotta quit doing vanity searches. I’m all conflicted. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Speaking only for myself, please report me as a troll to all Mods immediately, start a Pit thread explaining at length your reasoning process, etc. Or STFU. Your call, really. It’s kinda boring to turn “troll”–which has an actual meaning-- into “someone who makes me so mad I piss blood.” ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/242 "2006-12-28T14:34:29Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] Oh Lord whom I do not believe in, grant me the patience to deal with those who attack my posts without reading them. Thank you Lord. Amen. [/QUOTE] Good one, very funny. I skimmed and misread your post. Sorry. Hardly an attack though. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/243 "2006-12-28T14:43:48Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Speaking only for myself, please report me as a troll to all Mods immediately, start a Pit thread explaining at length your reasoning process, etc. Or STFU. Your call, really. It’s kinda boring to turn “troll”–which has an actual meaning-- into “someone who makes me so mad I piss blood.” [/QUOTE] You forgot option D - tell you to fuck off, troll. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/244 "2006-12-28T14:46:16Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Speaking only for myself, please report me as a troll to all Mods immediately, start a Pit thread explaining at length your reasoning process, etc. Or STFU. Your call, really. It’s kinda boring to turn “troll”–which has an actual meaning-- into “someone who makes me so mad I piss blood.” [/QUOTE] **Shodan** doesn’t seem angry to me; in fact, I thought his post was rather light-hearted. But you’ve long since proven your tone-deafness here. Have you considered the possibility that he when he called you a troll he meant the following? [QUOTE=SDSTAFF David and SDSTAFF Ed] …somebody who is posting just to be confrontational or to raise hackles. [/QUOTE] Your input to this board brings to mind for me another passage from the same treatise on trolls: [QUOTE=SDSTAFF David and SDSTAFF Ed] “Troll” is often flung about too casually. If somebody is simply ignorant or obtuse, it’s incorrect to call him a troll. Admittedly, it’s not always easy to distinguish between someone pretending to be wrong and someone who is wrong and doesn’t know it or won’t admit it. [/QUOTE] Ignorant and obtuse seem as likely as “troll” to me. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/245 "2006-12-28T14:54:52Z")
I’m sure he did mean to suggest I’ve been posting here for four years on a variety of subjects as a disguise designed to let me sneak in a few mean-spirited barbs against Xianity. What I’m offering him is a chance to have his interpretation confirmed by using the “report” button and getting some immediate satisfaction. It seems kind of lame to keep tossing the term “troll” around but not actually meaning it as anything more than a vague term of abuse. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/246 "2006-12-28T14:56:05Z")
And I’m sorry, but I do perceive a little bit of anger in “fuck off, troll.” Maybe that’s just my tin ear. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/247 "2006-12-28T15:23:26Z")
[QUOTE=Crotalus] **Shodan** doesn’t seem angry to me; in fact, I thought his post was rather light-hearted. But you’ve long since proven your tone-deafness here. Have you considered the possibility that he when he called you a troll he meant the following? Your input to this board brings to mind for me another passage from the same treatise on trolls:Ignorant and obtuse seem as likely as “troll” to me. [/QUOTE] I agree that \*\*PRR \*\* is coming off angry in this and several other threads currently. I disagree with the fact he should take even a mild accusation of troll lightly. On this board it is one of the worse things you can call someone and currently a poster I like is being pitted for using the word far too liberally about other posters. Calling someone a troll or sock, is probably more insulting than anything less than a racial epithet. I suspect most regular posters would rather be cursed at then called a Troll. If you are going to call someone a troll, it should either be something you are willing to stand behind and defend or be said with very obvious humor. I most definitely do not mean you **Crotalus** but I have seen several users act like bigger jerks in attacking \*\*PRR \*\* lately. None crossing the line to troll however. Jim ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/248 "2006-12-28T15:25:57Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] But I’m posting less on anything substantive these days, and thinking very carefully before I make any comments regarding religion whatsoever… [/quote] Good, good, very good. Now if I ever think you stop believing the ignorance you are now editing, then maybe we can be friends. > [@](#): > > …because I do have a troll stalking me. Well, to be truthful, I think you would have to admit you have been popping into my threads more often, as of late, than I’ve been popping into yours. > [@](#): > > And I’m not at all interested in tying my guts up in knots trying to deal with his fundamental dishonesty. That’s funny. What do you think my fundamental dishonesty is? One of yours might be promising to debate me point by point about your religious inconsistencies, after accusing me of making generalizations, and then when I address them point by point you puss out with claims that I’m nit picking or mean. The latter of which you knew before you got started. As for what’s tying your guts up in knots when you talk to me. Try looking up the term “cognitive dissonance.” > [@](#): > > If I and other liberal Christians denounce fundamentalists and evangelicals for their abusive behavior and dishonesty towards their own doctrines, that’s a direct insult to **Badchad** ’s sainted parents. If we do not, we’re caught by your remark above. There is a bit of a logical disconnect there. If you were an atheist denouncing the irrationality of my parents, or social injustices derived thereof, I would have no problem with you, and in fact I would likely agree. However you, you superstitious believer in magic, you don’t have a pot to piss in or a leg to stand on, and your guts know it. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/249 "2006-12-28T15:34:55Z")
> [@](#): > > If you were an atheist denouncing the irrationality of my parents, or social injustices derived thereof, I would have no problem with you, and in fact I would likely agree. However you, you superstitious believer in magic, you don’t have a pot to piss in or a leg to stand on, and your guts know it. Wow, you’re such a fatuous twit. You claim to be targetting **Poly** because he puts a good face on a religion which allows abusive and dishonest practitioners like your parents, but you disagree when he smacks down abuse and dishonesty as a representative of that religion? Guess the acorn didn’t fall too far from the tree. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/250 "2006-12-28T15:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=xenophon41] Wow, you’re such a fatuous twit. [/quote] And your a stupid fuck. > [@](#): > > You claim to be targetting **Poly** because he puts a good face on a religion which allows abusive and dishonest practitioners like your parents, but you disagree when he smacks down abuse and dishonesty as a representative of that religion? My parents aren’t abusive or overtly dishonest, they are hardworking people trying to do what they think is right, as I assume many if not most fundamentalists are. They are misguided, and since I think all ignorance should be fought, I think theirs should too. And so should Poly’s, which is representive of a good number of you nominal Christians. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/251 "2006-12-28T15:51:53Z")
" puts a good face on a religion " = “makes religion appear to be reasonable and scholarly and historical, whereas in reality it is a compilation of primitive and superstitious rituals.” ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/252 "2006-12-28T15:55:48Z")
So which is bullshit then, the targetting of **Poly** as a representative of a system of social injustice, or the fight against ignorance? -Both can’t be true, as you’ve just stated your disdain for **Poly** ’s brand of socially progressive Christianity. On the other hand, you’ve not actually _shown_ any ignorance on his part either. Odd that you still think you’re making any sort of coherent point. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/253 "2006-12-28T15:58:15Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] " puts a good face on a religion " = “makes religion appear to be reasonable and scholarly and historical, whereas in reality it is a compilation of primitive and superstitious rituals.” [/QUOTE] Have you thought about _how_ **Polycarp** is able to present that appearance? Through reasonable application of historical scholarship, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/254 "2006-12-28T16:06:58Z")
For the record, **PRR** , people who self-identify as Christians are saying certain things about what they take as standards **for their own behavior**. All I expect of “my co-religionists” is that they hold themselves to those standards – specifically, the ones Jesus set forth, not the ones manufactured by others who do not have the authority that I and they claim to see Him as having. I do try to do a bunch of self-examination. And no, I don’t like ad hom. attacks either. However, do you by any chance see a disconnect between the question in the thread title, the hijack you’ve taken this thread on for what’s now the third or fourth page of it, and the personal attack on me you’ve decided needs to be thrown into the works? ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/255 "2006-12-28T16:16:44Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] For the record, **PRR** All I expect of “my co-religionists” is that they hold themselves to those standards – specifically, the ones Jesus set forth… [/QUOTE] No, you just hold them to the standards set by Jesus **that you agree with.** ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/256 "2006-12-28T16:20:02Z")
I’m unaware of having attacked you personally at all, **Polycarp**. Your notions about Xianity, certainly, your debating techniques etc., but if I’ve gotten personal and nasty with you, that’s either a misconception on your part or a misjudgment on mine. Show me a personal attack (in this thread, maybe?) and I’ll try to say which one it is. Do you consider being described as “ignorant” to be a personal attack? I certainly accept that you perceive all atheists to be ignorant, and while I don’t accept that characterization as accurate, I’m not offended by it. “Ignorance” is to me a neutral term, pretty well describing all humans, on some subject or other, and which we all are seeking enlightenment beyond. I’m sorry if this word sets you off, but if you call me ignorant, my response is “Really? How so?” ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/257 "2006-12-28T17:12:15Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Show me a personal attack (in this thread, maybe?) and I’ll try to say which one it is. [/QUOTE] Pseudo, you lost your “Show me the post!” rights back on #198. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/258 "2006-12-28T17:20:44Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Do you consider being described as “ignorant” to be a personal attack? I certainly accept that you perceive all atheists to be ignorant, and while I don’t accept that characterization as accurate, I’m not offended by it. “Ignorance” is to me a neutral term, pretty well describing all humans, on some subject or other, and which we all are seeking enlightenment beyond. I’m sorry if this word sets you off, but if you call me ignorant, my response is “Really? How so?” [/QUOTE] Where in the fuck did you get this [the underscored item above] from? I’m prepared to learn from **anybody** with something useful or interesting to impart; I’ve mentioned several times here the insight about the nature of fatherhood that was taught me by a five-year-old boy. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/259 "2006-12-28T17:28:42Z")
Post #198 seems to me a perfectly temperate refusal to go on a search for cites to support a personal opinion. You may be surprised, but I don’t work for you. If I want to do a search, and if I want to defend my opinions, I will. But if I choose to tolerate your inept ridicule because I don’t think the most meticulous proof I could possibly find will change any of your closed or empty minds at present, that’s my choice, not yours. I continue to offer to review any posts where I was personally offensive to **Polycarp.** , plus which I think it’s incredibly silly that you’re getting worked up over such abuse in the Pit by or of anyone. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/260 "2006-12-28T17:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] Where in the fuck did you get this [the underscored item above] from? I’m prepared to learn from **anybody** with something useful or interesting to impart; I’ve mentioned several times here the insight about the nature of fatherhood that was taught me by a five-year-old boy. [/QUOTE] Stop the presses! Atheists aren’t ignorant of the existence of God? Please modify this statement in any way you see fitting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438.md?page=14)