# So why was Ammonius Saccus banned? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438 "2006-12-24T14:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/361 "2006-12-29T23:37:23Z")
Oops! Do over! This was posted today: > [@](#): > > **pseudo ruber ruber** : my Ph. D. is in English Literature, with a dissertation in Creative Writing. I wouldn’t want to get banned because Zoe keeps asserting I’m claiming to hold a doctorate “in” writing.) [This was posted October 15:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7869003&postcount=231) > [@](#): > > **pseudo ruber ruber** : I used to be a copyeditor before I went into teaching?Yes, Iwas hired to see that standards of English prose were being used at popular magazines, some of which I’m sure you read–imagine that! Terrifying, isn’t it?) > > This is one of the few tangible advantages of having a Ph. D. in writing and over fifty published pieces in popular and scholarly journals, and several books in print–you can just laugh when people get on their high horse and try to pretend that you don’t know how to write. (underscoring added) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/362 "2006-12-29T23:42:37Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] But in general, Tom, I would join those encouraging you to act on your convictions. There are at least two kinds of ways to misuse your mod powers. One is to continually warn a member for no good reason. The other is to scrupulously avoid warning a user for no good reason. [/QUOTE] Agreed. However, I treated him in **Great Debates** as I have treated all other posters. Launching a campaign to eliminate him goes beyond my mandate and smacking him down for activity in a **Pit** thread is outside my competency, since I have never really figured out what should or should not be permitted, here (other than no spamming). ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/363 "2006-12-30T00:41:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Caridwen and What Exit?, no it wasn’t in this thread. His apology doesn’t exist. I’m sorry to be so confusing. I wish I hadn’t even pretended now. I posted what I was wishing I could post instead of this… That’s good! I thought I either missed the apology in another post or poor Zoe misread the post somehow and thought it contained an apology. eek! I felt almost bad asking. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/364 "2006-12-30T00:47:29Z")
Zoe, that is awesome. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/365 "2006-12-30T01:48:17Z")
Not really. I do have a doctorate with a dissertation in creative writing. It’s accurate to describe one’s doctorate as being in one’s field of study (in my case American Literature of the late 19th and early 20th centuries), or one’s broader area of study (in my case, English Literature, meaning literature written in the English language, I suppose), or a doctorate in the Humanities (as opposed to the Sciences) or as in the type of dissertation one wrote (in my case in Creative Writing, as opposed to literary criticism). I was merely distinguishing what **Zoe** had claimed on the basis of what I had written months ago (and forgotten). My challenge still stands, though: if **Zoe** really think I’'m being inaccurate in any claim, then she may ask a Mod to check out my credentials (as I say, it shouldn’t take five minutes, once I give the Mod a few phone numbers and websites) and either I will accept banning or else **Zoe** can. It’s a simple challenge, and one I am eager for **Zoe** (or anyone else wishing to accuse me formally of the lies she is stalking with me informally) to accept. I suspect she enjoys the stalking more than she enjoys the conclusion of the stalking. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/366 "2006-12-30T01:53:42Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] in my case, English Literature, meaning literature written in the English language, I suppose [/QUOTE] You don’t know? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/367 "2006-12-30T02:04:31Z")
Pseudo, honestly, dear God. Put a fucking sock in it. Say something pleasant. Or take up gardening. That’s what I did for six months. I helped my wife with her garden… Okay, I wasn’t that helpful. All I did was haul dirt and stuff. She did the actual designing and decision making. The yard, the koi pond, the cobblestone paths — it all looks beautiful because of her. Anyway, just stop whining about every fucking thing. You’ll only come to grief over it. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/368 "2006-12-30T02:07:52Z")
**Pseudo** , all we know is that you accused **Zoe** of making a false statement about you, and she proved that she quoted this supposedly false statement directly from one of your posts. If you can’t keep track of how you describe your credentials, how do you expect anyone else to? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/369 "2006-12-30T02:07:52Z")
Re: PRR See Post 357. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/370 "2006-12-30T02:12:08Z")
Stop it, people. It is only proper to question issues of facts when they are directed at Xtians. You guys are just vigilantes. Cut it out or I’ll start an 8-page thread trashing your bias. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/371 "2006-12-30T02:17:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I suspect she enjoys the stalking more than she enjoys the conclusion of the stalking. Zoe is stalking you and Tom is picking on you. Please tell me you don’t teach on the east coast. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/372 "2006-12-30T02:22:27Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Zoe is stalking you and Tom is picking on you. Please tell me you don’t teach on the east coast. [/QUOTE] Hey, hey, just because you’re a raving paranoid nutter doesn’t mean they _aren’t_ out to get you, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/373 "2006-12-30T02:40:49Z")
**PRR** : This is **not** an assault on your veracity (or your velocity or voraciousness either, for that matter), but a simple matter of intellectual curiosity. What does a “dissertation in creative writing” entail? Composition of a work of fiction in accordance with specified guidelines? A thesis on the methodology of teaching or encouraging creative writing? A “frame document” dissertation in which you present and analyze various samples of your creative writing? The phrasing mystifies me, and I’m curious. In view of our less-than-civil exchanges, I won’t be offended if you choose not to explain – but, completely independently of any issues we have yet to resolve, I’m purely curious from an ignorance-fighting standpoint as to what such a dissertation might entail. Thanks in advance if you do choose to respond. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/374 "2006-12-30T02:50:49Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] **PRR** : This is **not** an assault on your veracity (or your velocity or voraciousness either, for that matter), but a simple matter of intellectual curiosity. What does a “dissertation in creative writing” entail? Composition of a work of fiction in accordance with specified guidelines? A thesis on the methodology of teaching or encouraging creative writing? A “frame document” dissertation in which you present and analyze various samples of your creative writing? The phrasing mystifies me, and I’m curious. In view of our less-than-civil exchanges, I won’t be offended if you choose not to explain – but, completely independently of any issues we have yet to resolve, I’m purely curious from an ignorance-fighting standpoint as to what such a dissertation might entail. Thanks in advance if you do choose to respond. [/QUOTE] I appreciate your courtesy, **Polycarp.** If you have an active e-mail link I will write a private response to you, supplying full answers to your questions. I’m sure you understand why I don’t wish to give more fodder to these cows to vomit and re-digest. (If you don’t have an active link, then e-mail me, and I’ll be glad to answer.) As to why I don’t know whether my degree is technically in English Lit, I haven’t looked at my diploma in a few decades. It might say English LIterature or Literature or American Literature, I’m not certain. I don’t think about it all that much, certainly not as much as you folks seem to obsess on it. But I’m still waiting for someone to take me up on my challenge. Every second that passes without someone simply hitting the report button and saying that I’m creating a troll-personality by claiming false attributes is another second I’m still on this board. Why not just hit that button and be rid of me, once and for all? It couldn’t be that you’re trolling me, could it, by deliberately accusing me of things that you actually believe to quite otherwise? Nah. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/375 "2006-12-30T02:52:29Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] It’s a simple challenge, and one I am eager for **Zoe** (or anyone else wishing to accuse me formally of the lies she is stalking with me informally) to accept. [/QUOTE] All I know is, I’d like to think someone with a PhD. related to writing would be able to construct better sentences than this. Then again, I’ve met enough people with degrees who seemed clueless when it came to certain basic aspects of their fields that I believe your credentials are valid. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/376 "2006-12-30T03:07:27Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] As to why I don’t know whether my degree is technically in English Lit, I haven’t looked at my diploma in a few decades. It might say English LIterature or Literature or American Literature, I’m not certain. I don’t think about it all that much, certainly not as much as you folks seem to obsess on it. [/QUOTE] It doesn’t really matter what it technically says, as we are all unlikely to ever see it, and I think we all get the gist of what a degree in literature is. But if you tell people you have a “PhD in writing,” then I wouldn’t be so surprised if they come back later and say “he says he has a PhD in writing.” ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/377 "2006-12-30T03:19:13Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Zoe is stalking you and Tom is picking on you. Please tell me you don’t teach on the east coast. [/QUOTE] True, true, and true. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/378 "2006-12-30T03:25:44Z")
Which is to say that I do teach on the east coast. [QUOTE=Sarahfeena] It doesn’t really matter what it technically says, as we are all unlikely to ever see it, and I think we all get the gist of what a degree in literature is. But if you tell people you have a “PhD in writing,” then I wouldn’t be so surprised if they come back later and say “he says he has a PhD in writing.” [/QUOTE] I didn’t express the idea very well, but I was trying to get across that **Zoe** has misstated my credentials (with some unwitting help from me, because I presented them in summarized form) and her statements about my credentials contain minor and technical inaccuracies. It’s impossible and unnecessary to provide full details on a public message board, but if **Zoe** wants to challenge my credentials, she is free to. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/379 "2006-12-30T03:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Tom is picking on you [/QUOTE] ??? I have posted exactly one unsolicited smart-assed comment that could be construed as directed toward you (even though it did not name you). Every other one of my posts in our exchange has been in response to your persistent (and utterly unsupported) attacks on me. Even as a bad joke your claim does not work, here. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438/380 "2006-12-30T03:38:06Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] ??? I have posted exactly one unsolicited smart-assed comment that could be construed as directed toward you (even though it did not name you). Every other one of my posts in our exchange has been in response to your persistent (and utterly unsupported) attacks on me. Even as a bad joke your claim does not work, here. [/QUOTE] In the interest of diverting another trainwreck, I’ll amend my post to “The first and third are clearly true.” Now, as to the second: I’m NOT asking you to chastise **Zoe** (I could give a shit) but I’d appreciate your distinguishing the pattern you were so quick to call “trolling” in regard to **badchad** ’s gleeful and unprovoked repetitions of insults to **Polycarp** (as I suppose you saw it) from her stalking of me in thread after thread. Are you looking into this at all, or is what she’s been doing for the last few months kosher? If so, why? I’m asking you this in your official capacity as a Moderator, btw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-why-was-ammonius-saccus-banned/385438.md?page=20)