# So Will The Sky Fall If The UN Declare Palestine a State? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182 "2011-09-04T19:54:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/201 "2011-09-21T02:10:08Z")
This video seems [appropriate](http://vimeo.com/26415846). It gives a rundown of how the Arab Voting Bloc & Friends have an unfair advantage in UN affairs. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/202 "2011-09-21T02:42:47Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [**Why the Middle East Will Never Be the Same Again**](http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-why-the-middle-east-will-never-be-the-same-again-2357514.html) > > More at source. Good read. It’s almost in the same spirit as The New Yorker column I posted earlier only Fisk is kinda resigned and somewhat angry. It’s very precise and on the mark. I loved that comment about Saudi Arabia and Israel having the same reaction to Arab Spring. Tells you all you need to know. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/203 "2011-09-21T02:44:07Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I doubt it, since it will encourage the Arabs to think they can achieve their dream of destroying Jewish Israel. Giving them anything they can perceive as a victory without requiring concessions in return is counterproductive. It will only embolden them to make more demands and to be more intransigent. You sound like a typical Tea Party ideologue. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/204 "2011-09-21T03:37:24Z")
What the hell does the Tea Party have to do with Israel? Aren’t they anti-aid and largely isolationist? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/205 "2011-09-21T05:26:10Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > You sound like a typical Tea Party ideologue. There is no point to this sort of personal remark. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/206 "2011-09-21T10:16:28Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > You sound like a typical Tea Party ideologue. Assuming that’s true, so what? Presumably even Tea Partiers are capable of making meritorious arguments. > [@](#): > > I loved that comment about Saudi Arabia and Israel having the same reaction to Arab Spring. Tells you all you need to know. Why shouldn’t Israel be concerned about what’s going on in Egypt? Everyone knows that revolutions can create power vacuums which can lead to bad results. Just look at what happened in Iran in the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/207 "2011-09-21T13:43:34Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Getting excited about “fireworks” is at best tacky and extremely insensitive. Can’t wait for the terrorist attacks, they’ll make really awesome TV!!! Those weren’t the fireworks I was referring to ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/208 "2011-09-21T15:05:30Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > What the hell does the Tea Party have to do with Israel? Aren’t they anti-aid and largely isolationist? Please don’t read everything too literally – there is no direct relation. Give it a chance that a poster might be able to use a slightly more complex writing form to argue another poster’s inability to address the issue in a meaningful matter. In brazil84’s first sentence I compared to the Tea Party rhetoric, just replace “Arabs” (even though it should be Palestinians) with “Liberals” (even though it should be Democrats) and Jewish Israel with USA and, hopefully, you can get the point. But, I guess, the whole point was lost due to > [@brazil84](#): > > Presumably even Tea Partiers are capable of making meritorious arguments. > [@brazil84](#): > > Why shouldn’t Israel be concerned about what’s going on in Egypt? Everyone knows that revolutions can create power vacuums which can lead to bad results. Just look at what happened in Iran in the 1970s. Again, very simplistic view that ignores fundamental differences and origins of and the forces that made Egyptians getting rid of Mubarak and Iranians getting rid of Shah. My point was that it is absolutely understandable how two US propped regimes in Israel and Saudi Arabia would be concerned that democracy is spreading in their neighborhood. If anything, Arab Spring is worth for invalidating oft used catchphrase of “West must support the only democracy in ME”. In due time, other catchphrases will be invalidated too. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/209 "2011-09-21T15:17:49Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Again, very simplistic view that ignores fundamental differences and origins of and the forces that made Egyptians getting rid of Mubarak and Iranians getting rid of Shah. Well what exactly is wrong with my argument? Back in the 1970s, Israel gave up land to Egypt in exchange for a promise. There is a lot of sentiment in Egypt to renege on that promise. Why shouldn’t Israel be concerned that Egypt will renege on its commitment? For that matter, consider people in the world who want Israel to make further peace deals. Shouldn’t those people be concerned that Israel needs to be reasonably confident that the commitments it receives will be honored? > [@](#): > > My point was that it is absolutely understandable how two US propped regimes in Israel and Saudi Arabia would be concerned that democracy is spreading in their neighborhood. I disagree with calling Israel a “US propped regime,” but of course Israel should be concerned about democracy in the Arab world. Just look at what happened in Gaza: A democratic election installed a terrorist group which proceeded to slaughter its enemies, put an end to democracy, and start a vicious campaign to murder Israeli civilians. Do you support Hamas? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/210 "2011-09-21T15:26:23Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I disagree with calling Israel a “US propped regime,” Are you saying that if there was no US to foot the bill for threats, land grabbing and killings that Israel would be able to do those things on its own? Israel is definition of a propped regime that in normal circumstances would be much more agreeable to its immediate neighbours. > [@brazil84](#): > > Do you support Hamas? Hamas as described in US media. Absolutely no. Who in their right mind would support such a monster? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/211 "2011-09-21T15:34:32Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Are you saying that if there was no US to foot the bill for threats, land grabbing and killings that Israel would be able to do those things on its own? I disagree with your accusation of “land grabbing,” but of course Israel engages in threats and killing like every other civilized nation which is under attack. And my answer is “yes.” Israel did not receive much US aid before 1973 and held its own pretty well before then. Since then, the US aid it receives is a pretty small percentage of its GNP. > [@](#): > > Hamas as described in US media. Absolutely no. Who in their right mind would support such a monster? Umm, does that mean that yes, you support Hamas? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/212 "2011-09-21T15:35:34Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Hamas as described in US media. Absolutely no. Who in their right mind would support such a monster? Is your contention that Hamas has been unfairly maligned in the US media? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/213 "2011-09-21T16:02:23Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Is your contention that Hamas has been unfairly maligned in the US media? I have no idea. Do you think Likud has been embellished in US media? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/214 "2011-09-21T16:45:47Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > I have no idea. Mmmm hmmmm. Would you care to change the subject now that your dodge was shown to be threadbare? > [@newcomer](#): > > […] Likud […] I see the answer is “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/215 "2011-09-21T17:05:00Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > I have no idea. If you know so little about the situation that you can’t say whether or not the brothers have been maligned by the US media that doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in your understanding or analysis of the situation. I’d recommend reading up on it before making extreme claims about a situation you(by your own admission) know little about. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/216 "2011-09-21T19:00:20Z")
I was about to say basically what **Ibn Warraq** said. There’s no shame in ignorance, but if you really have no clue about Hamas, you aren’t really in a position to evaluate or assess Israel’s conduct over the past 5 or 10 years. Or the entire issue of Palestinian Statehood for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/217 "2011-09-21T23:27:20Z")
[QUOTE] > [@newcomer](#): > > Again, very simplistic view that ignores fundamental differences and origins of and the forces that made Egyptians getting rid of Mubarak and Iranians getting rid of Shah. Uh, one had the backing of the military elite and the latter had the backing of the US? 😕 > [@](#): > > My point was that it is absolutely understandable how two US propped regimes in Israel and Saudi Arabia would be concerned that democracy is spreading in their neighborhood. If Israel were ‘propped up’ by the U.S., Netenyahu and Obama wouldn’t be frenemies. > [@](#): > > If anything, Arab Spring is worth for invalidating oft used catchphrase of “West must support the only democracy in ME”. I’d love to see more democracies in the Middle East. There just isn’t one yet. Even the PLO, as some have pointed out, wasn’t elected…though it’s vying for statehood in what some papers are calling part of this “Arab Spring”. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/218 "2011-09-22T03:50:07Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > The USA is frantically trying to prevent a UN vote on Palestinian statehood. > My question: what really bad stuff will happen if such a vote is cast? I don’t know about the sky but right-wing Republican religious conservatives will take a step back from believing that expediting the annihilation of Palestinians, and then the annihilation of Jewish people will take the Christians a step closer to their much anticipated Rapture. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/219 "2011-09-22T03:53:59Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > I don’t know about the sky but right-wing Republican religious conservatives will take a step back from believing that expediting the annihilation of Palestinians, and then the annihilation of Jewish people will take the Christians a step closer to their much anticipated Rapture. What would possibly make you the think that the Palestinian people are in danger of annihilation or that there are any policies in place by either Israel or America which could “expedite” this? That’s even more moronic than thinking Al Quaeda could destroy America. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182/220 "2011-09-22T03:58:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What would possibly make you the think that the Palestinian people are in danger of annihilation or that there are any policies in place by either Israel or America which could “expedite” this? > > That’s even more moronic than thinking Al Quaeda could destroy America. I don’t believe the Palestinians are in danger of annihilation. It’s the extremist conservative political factors in US politics that want to see the Israel nation annihilate the Palestinians and then rebuild their church thing and then be annihilated themselves by the Christian god who will deliver the Christians in their much anticipated Rapture. It’s not me who says these things. It’s the US Conservatives - Republicans that push and act to the benefit of these – lunatics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-will-the-sky-fall-if-the-un-declare-palestine-a-state/595182.md?page=12)