# So Winchester put the MO in Major... David Ogden Stiers officially comes out **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2009, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709 "2009-04-29T06:19:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/41 "2009-05-01T03:06:49Z")
Okay, Brett may not have been a classic beauty, but she seemed like she was loads of fun, between fights. And Klugman’s no prize pig. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/42 "2009-05-01T20:25:44Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Now, I watch old repeats of “Match Game” or “Bewitched” and see those two, and they totally peg the needle on the gaydar. 🙂 When I watch old Match Game episodes, all of 'em peg the needle on the drunk-dar! I never noticed when I was a kid, but it seems like they were all soused. > [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, good ol’ “B.J.” With that funny moustache. Who never wanted to fool around with nurses, because of his “wife” back home. In San Francisco. Good lord, I’m a geek! I’m going to nitpick this one… He did cheat on his wife. Once. And he felt terribly horribly guilty about it. (I don’t remember whether he decided to tell her or not.) And it was Mill Valley. Just north of SF, but not in it. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/43 "2009-05-01T20:45:48Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > He did cheat on his wife. Once. And he felt terribly horribly guilty about it. (I don’t remember whether he decided to tell her or not.) He started writing a letter to Peg only to have Hawkeye stop him. Also, BJ later was tempted by female reporter Maggie O’Shea (but resisted). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/44 "2009-05-01T21:20:03Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Good lord, I’m a geek! I’m going to nitpick this one… > > He did cheat on his wife. Once. He was just experimenting. Most gay guys try at least one time with a woman. He also experimented with not having a mustache. Doesn’t prove much. > [@](#): > > Also, BJ later was tempted by female reporter Maggie O’Shea (but resisted). Oh, yeah, like Michael Stipe _resisted_ all the college girls. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/45 "2009-05-02T02:37:06Z")
Mike Farrell, who played the role of B.J., is AFAIK, still married to Shelly Fabrey (spelling uncertain) who played the daughter on **The Donna Reed Show**. She is the niece of Nanette Frabres (spelling uncertain) who had a starring role on **The Sid Caesar Show**. I recall that the aunt and niece spell their names differently. I met Mike Farrell at a benefit. My gaydar, which was refined at Peabody, didn’t even quiver. And Beej gay? Nyaaaaah. Good for David Ogden Stiers! I think his tastes are a little shallow, but who’s to care? I hope he finds exactly what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/46 "2009-05-02T02:50:54Z")
Neither DOS nor his portrayal of Winchester ever pinged nuttin’ with me, and I’m pretty good with the gaydar. Sure, Charles was a bit effete, but he was from Boston. An easy mistake to make. 😃 Now, Frank Burns, on the other hand … totally overcompensating with Hot Lips. He’s got a self-hating Roy Cohn streak running down his back a mile long. And my boy B.J. is straight as an arrow. There was the Maggie O’Shea and the Nurse Carrie fling, and then he and Margaret had a bit of a flirty friendship thing going, and I’m sure other nurses appreciated those moments when he was sunning himself topless. Ah, Mike Farrell. Le sigh! My first real crush, aside from Dave Debusschere (sp?) and the animated Robin Hood. As for that mustache: c’mon, it was the [strike]fifties[/strike] seventies! Men had dubmass mustaches! I suppose Robert Redford and Burt Reynolds were gay too? In all seriousness: I’m glad DOS came out, if it was important to him to be honest. I echo **Zoe** completely: I wish him as much happiness as he’s given others with his amazing performances and lovely voice. Even if that happiness means aiming squarely at twinks. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/47 "2009-05-02T03:04:34Z")
My own nitpick: I never saw Winchester or Stiers as _effeminate_. Their tastes and mannerisms may have been _effete_ perhaps, but not feminine (i.e. not like Jack McFarland or Nathan Lane’s dread character in _Birdcage_ or Liberace). Not that there’s anything wrong with that. In real life Stiers is not a Boston Brahmin or anything like but a Peoria farmboy. I find that funny because Peoria is mostly known to the rest of the country as quintessential good ol’ down home folksy Americana America- “Will it play in Peoria?” as opposed to the Gotham of NYC or Hellyweird. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/48 "2009-05-02T04:26:15Z")
> [@](#): > > In real life Stiers is not a Boston Brahmin or anything like but a Peoria farmboy. Tony Randall grew up in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Great fussbudgets are born not made. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/49 "2009-05-02T04:28:20Z")
Good call differentiating between “effete” and “effeminate.” Another example, which you may or may not agree with–Frasier is effete. Niles is both effete and effeminate. > [@bup](#): > > He also experimented with not having a mustache. Doesn’t prove much. He didn’t have a mustache when he joined the show, so wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that he experimented with having a mustache? None of which suggests that he’s gay. If he’d experimented with having a beard on the other hand… It just occurred to me that his wife’s name was Peg. Kinda phallic, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/50 "2009-05-02T11:28:01Z")
I’ve always thought that Kelsey Grammer/Grammar was gay. Something about his wife looks a little barbie dollish. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/51 "2009-05-02T16:29:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Something about his wife looks a little barbie dollish. Proves nothing. Now if his wife looked like GI Joe that would be suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/52 "2009-05-02T16:41:40Z")
Charles Emerson Winchester and Frasier Crane are two sides of the same coin, separated by decades and fortune (Frasier seemed like he came from wealth on _Cheers_ but that was mostly retconned away on _Frasier_ when they made his dad a cop) and neither of them ever came across as “effeminate” to me. Sidenote: Hmm, interesting that some of the same writers were involved with developing both Frasier and Charles – Ken Levine and David Isaacs. Anyway, considering two of the so-called “butchest” guys on _Frasier_ were played by gay actors, the whole “oh the character’s effete so I always suspected the actor must be gay” thing is pretty much a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/53 "2009-05-02T17:26:16Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > I’ve always thought that Kelsey Grammer/Grammar was gay. > > Something about his wife looks a little barbie dollish. Which one? He’s had about 14 I think. (Just looked it up: only 3 official wives, though he has a couple of extra baby mamas that he didn’t marry.) Continuing the hijack, his wife is a piece of work. I remember an Entertainment Tonight story a few years ago when she was being interviewed after she was pulled out of line and searched at an airport and was briefly arrested because she wouldn’t consent to a body search. They wouldn’t let her board the plane and she had to call her lawyer to avoid having charges pressed. She was talking about her “ordeal” and crying as if she she was discussing having cancer or losing a child or whatever instead of not being able to fly first class somewhere. Actual line from her recounting the horrors of the day: “I kept telling them ‘I’m \*Mrs. Kelsey Grammar’! They didn’t care!” Okay, princess… In the first place, why wouldn’t you allow a body search? A little cokey wokey in the bra? Or just modest? In the second place, you know what’d happen if I refused to consent to a body search? I’d probably be discussing how to “pimp this cell” with Tex Watson. In the third place, while I’ll admit the random searches at airports can tend towards the ridiculous (and I’m speaking from experience: I’ve had the ‘magic number’ a couple of times that got the extra searching- even lost a keyring that had a flashlight on it once because it ‘might’ be contraband for flights), and while I’ll admit that rich anorexic white women are generally only terrorists to flight attendants and or people who sit within earshot of them on the plane, the random searches started for a reason. That was 9/11, and this was a lot closer to 9/11. Do you remember 9/11 ‘Mrs. Kelsey Grammer’? That was that day when a lot of people had like really bad flights you know? And one of them was David Angell, the creator/executive producer/writer of that TV show your husband works for. Further continuing the hijack, Grammer is I think totally an Ed McMahon in the making. While he was the highest paid actor on TV and no doubt his residuals for two hit series are substantial (though they decrease significantly and rapidly after so many viewings I understand) he apparently spends it like it was Monopoly money. His [Malibu place](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_61djkGwfEZo/RojjT7xMDSI/AAAAAAAAA6c/m1esd4-WjLQ/s400/Grammer_Boo.jpg) alone is several acres and currently on the market for $20 million, and he has a condo in the studio, a place in NYC, [this place](http://longisland.newsday.com/realestate/profile.php?id=17)on Long Island, an Aspen house, and [this place](http://lh5.ggpht.com/_evuXBwUSU_0/SdJNJzQDJdI/AAAAAAAADHU/uvoM247Nzjk/kelsey%20gramer%20ad%5B5%5D.jpg)in Maui. A divorce from Bulimia Barbie, or problems with some of his kids, or a recurrence of his substance abuse problems, regular fluctuations of stock, etc., and for all his condemnation of liberal Democrat spending (he’s a staunch Republican) and he might be doing SURREAL LIFE 21 in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709/54 "2009-05-02T17:37:03Z")
> [@The New and Improved Superman](#): > > Randall was a guest on “the Tonight Show” shortly after Jay Leno took it over. He told an anecdote about checking into a hotel with his wife. One of the bellboys confessed to him “You know I always used to think that you & Jack Klugman\* were…y’know.” > > Leno asked “Did you tell your wife what he said?” > > Randall: My wife?? I ran right up to my room and called Jack! > > Randall’s “Odd Couple” co-star. I once saw Jay & his wife Mavis and he told a story about how they were taking a Sunday drive in one of his antique cars. He came to an intersection that was blocked off, but the cop waved him in. He thought “Wow, I’m a big time TV guy. The cop stops other people, but I get through.” So he starts to drive and realizes he has been waved into the California Gay Pride Parade. Since he is stuck them, he starts waving to the crowd. People are cheering. “Way to go, Jay” “Out of the closet Jay.” He was very laid back about the whole story, but Mavis sitting next to him was giggling so hard I thought she was going to fall off the chair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-winchester-put-the-mo-in-major-david-ogden-stiers-officially-comes-out/494709.md?page=2)