# So, WWII was a good thing...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [December 23, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013 "2013-12-23T13:24:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alba)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/1 "2013-12-23T13:24:30Z")
and ordained by God?
I came across this rather interesting bit while trying to find out if the quote “If there is a God he will have to beg for my forgiveness” was actually inscribed in the wall of a concentration camp.
[Link](http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130727112833AA37kXS)
> [@](#):
>
> The man who allegedly inscribed that statement was interested in relief from his own suffering, and could not see the big picture of what God was accomplishing for future generations. It was a purely selfish statement.
After closing my mouth, which fell open out of pure astonishment, and re-thinking all the atrocities in the world which are part of His big picture. I am still left wondering if the inscription is real. Does anybody know?
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/2 "2013-12-23T14:35:02Z")
God knew in 1939 that there were several million people who would use atomic bombs in a future war. He had to get rid of them before atomic bombs were developed (which was inevitable given the state of knowledge of physics in 1939). He had to prevent them from starting a war using atomic bombs which would wipe out the human race. He, in his infinite wisdom, knew that the most efficient way to eliminate those particular people was a war where only two atomic bombs were dropped right at the end, but where first those several million people who had to die did die in the war. Many people who would bluster about using atomic bombs survived the war, but they would never actually use bombs. As bad as World War II was, the war that would have otherwise occurred a few years later would have been vastly worse. Indeed, it would have wiped out the human race.
Showing the problems in the above claim is left for the reader.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/3 "2013-12-23T17:03:55Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#):
>
> Showing the problems in the above claim is left for the reader.
I knew it. God’s an anti-semite!
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/4 "2013-12-23T17:31:37Z")
It would certainly make some of Jewish history easier to understand…
Except, of course, that the main difference between Jewish historical persecution and that of a lot of other tribes is that the Jews had writing so they started documenting it a hell of a lot earlier than was done for others.
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### Author:  [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/5 "2013-12-23T17:43:24Z")
“Why does God let bad things happen?” is a fundamental and existential question for any religion that believes in an omnipotent, omniscient creator. Some people do better answering that question than others. The key is usually to go vague. “We cannot understand the mind of God,” or, “He works in mysterious ways.” An atheist’s version would be, “We can neither completely predict forces of nature nor human behavior.”
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/6 "2013-12-23T17:47:35Z")
The notion that horrible events have “God’s” guiding hand behind them to some better end is the single most compelling proof that religion is form of group insanity.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/7 "2013-12-23T17:57:02Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#):
>
> The notion that horrible events have “God’s” guiding hand behind them to some better end is the single most compelling proof that religion is form of group insanity.
Right on! After all, if an omnipotent god wanted to prevent atomic war, it could just make atomic weapons impossible to build. You cannot know the mind of god (but you can know, if you are a particular kind of religious nut that god hates gays, or god hates contraception or divorce and women priests or whatever).
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/8 "2013-12-23T18:03:19Z")
Let me see if I’ve got this down right: God has a plan that will benefit everyone in the end, but it can only to fruition if a certain percentage of children are raped and/or starved and/or beaten to death, and we cannot know what the number is because…_MYSTERY!_
Did y’all ever see the movie “The Cabin In The Woods”?
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### Author:  [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/9 "2013-12-23T18:18:22Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#):
>
> “Why does God let bad things happen?” is a fundamental and existential question for any religion that believes in an omnipotent, omniscient creator. Some people do better answering that question than others. The key is usually to go vague. “We cannot understand the mind of God,” or, “He works in mysterious ways.” An atheist’s version would be, “We can neither completely predict forces of nature nor human behavior.”
With the difference being that atheists don’t fob off the blame on a mythological third party - a third party who can do only good, so the failure to understand 100,000 deaths from a flood is the fault of puny man, not the being who caused it to happen.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/10 "2013-12-23T18:37:53Z")
I thought that was Elie Wiesel, but [this](http://www.wordsntone.com/index.php/site/comments/seeing_god_hanging_on_the_gallows/) is as close as I can get.
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### Author:  [@Alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alba)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/11 "2013-12-23T19:44:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> I thought that was Elie Wiesel, but [this](http://www.wordsntone.com/index.php/site/comments/seeing_god_hanging_on_the_gallows/) is as close as I can get.
Thanks. That does seem in a similar vain.
I only read the quote this year, because it was appearing all over social media and it seems to me that a quote like that would be more well known.
On the other hand; why o why does Yahoo! answers always appear in the top search results? Marissa Mayer should get her head out of her tightly fit ass and do away with it.
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### Author:  [@Alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alba)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/12 "2013-12-23T19:58:49Z")
I don’t think a statement like God has forsaken us is evidence of no God. What does me in, is people condoning atrocities. Even if there is a God, which I don’t think there is, there are numerous possibilities why such acts happen and none of those should be “it is part of God’s bigger plan”.
People like that deserve a thread in the Pit and a whole lot more. After encountering those I wish there was some form of justice in this world.
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/13 "2013-12-23T20:58:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#):
>
> I knew it. God’s an anti-semite!
Was there ever a question? From enslavement to getting gassed like animals, I can’t say The Chosen People have ever gotten the good end of the stick. They don’t even get Heaven, they just die with the satisfaction of the knowledge of a job well done–or they die feeling guilty. If it weren’t for Stockholm syndrome He would have been abandoned long ago.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/14 "2013-12-23T22:29:04Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#):
>
> Was there ever a question? From enslavement to getting gassed like animals, I can’t say The Chosen People have ever gotten the good end of the stick. They don’t even get Heaven, they just die with the satisfaction of the knowledge of a job well done–or they die feeling guilty. If it weren’t for Stockholm syndrome He would have been abandoned long ago.
Some of the Orthodox believe in an afterlife. 🙂
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### Author:  [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/15 "2013-12-23T23:48:02Z")
I think everyone is missing the real issue here. WHY are you taking anything posted on Yahoo Answers seriously? Yahoo Answers is basically [The Stupid leading The Stupider](http://yahooanswerswtf.tumblr.com/).
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/16 "2013-12-24T01:24:55Z")
Hari Seldon writes:
\> After all, if an omnipotent god wanted to prevent atomic war, it could just make
\> atomic weapons impossible to build.
This assumes that God can create a universe in which anything whatsoever that can be described by us can happen even if that description is ridiculous and inconsistent. But what if God can only create a universe with consistent laws of physics? Perhaps a universe in which atomic weapons are impossible to build is one in which no intelligent beings could ever evolve, since in such a world there could never be stars supplying light and heat to planets. Perhaps God can create any universe with any initial state and any physical rules on how the universe will evolve, but He can’t have the universe change at any point in what those physical rules and initial state is.
Or perhaps God stands outside of our timeline considering the entire history of the universe at once. He can create any initial state of the universe and any physical rules for it. Furthermore, he can tweak the universe in some limited way at any place and time over its entire history. He could, for instance, push a single particle to move slightly differently as long as it’s consistent with Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle. He could make as many such tweaks as He wished to, but each of those tweaks is constrained by some limits like the Uncertainty Principle. Perhaps this also means that no universe with intelligent beings could exist without atomic weapons.
There’s no way, of course, to prove this. There’s also no way to disprove this. We have no idea what omnipotence means. We have no way to prove or disprove whether omnipotent beings exist, even if the term means something. Incidentally, this sort of convoluted logic is actually pretty typical in discussions of what God can or can’t do.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/17 "2013-12-24T02:31:32Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#):
>
> We have no idea what omnipotence means.
As the Supreme Being said in [Time Bandits](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081633/?ref_=nv_sr_1), “I believe it has something to do with Free Will.”
🙂
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/18 "2013-12-24T05:35:06Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#):
>
> Hari Seldon writes:
>
> \> After all, if an omnipotent god wanted to prevent atomic war, it could just make
> \> atomic weapons impossible to build.
>
> This assumes that God can create a universe in which anything whatsoever that can be described by us can happen even if that description is ridiculous and inconsistent.
If he’s omnipotent then he by definition can. Once you start talking about a god that doesn’t have the power to do something, you are no longer talking about an omnipotent god.
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> As the Supreme Being said in [Time Bandits](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081633/?ref_=nv_sr_1), “I believe it has something to do with Free Will.”
>
> 🙂
The free will argument doesn’t work. For one thing it amounts to saying that only the free will of evil people matters; God’s certainly not protecting the free will of people who don’t want to be oppressed and slaughtered when he stays back and lets tyrants do exactly that. For another it makes God out to be amoral at best; what would we call a human who stood back and did nothing to stop an atrocity, when they could stop it with neither effort nor risk?
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#):
>
> Was there ever a question? From enslavement to getting gassed like animals, I can’t say The Chosen People have ever gotten the good end of the stick. They don’t even get Heaven, they just die with the satisfaction of the knowledge of a job well done–or they die feeling guilty. If it weren’t for Stockholm syndrome He would have been abandoned long ago.
A Robert Ingersoll quote I liked ever since I ran across it in _Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener._
> [@](#):
>
> ```
> When reading the history of the Jewish people, of their flight
>
> ```
>
> from, slavery to death, of their exchange of tyrants, I must
> confess that my sympathies are all aroused in their behalf. They
> were cheated, deceived and abused. Their god was quick-tempered,
> unreasonable, cruel, revengeful and dishonest. He was always
> promising but never performed. He wasted time in ceremony and
> childish detail, and in the exaggeration of what he had done. It is
> impossible for me to conceive of a character more utterly
> detestable than that of the Hebrew god. He had solemnly promised
> the Jews that he would take them from Egypt to a land flowing with
> milk and honey. He had led them to believe that in a little while
> their troubles would be over, and that they would soon be in the
> land of Canaan, surrounded by their wives and little ones, forget
> the stripes and tears of Egypt. After promising the poor wanderers
> again and again that he would lead them in safety to the promised
> land of Joy and plenty, this God, forgetting every promise, said to
> the wretches in his power: – “Your carcasses shall fall in this
> wilderness and your children shall wander until your carcasses be
> wasted.” This curse was the conclusion of the whole matter. Into
> this dust of death and night faded all the promises of God. Into
> this rottenness of wandering despair fell all the dreams of liberty
> and home. Millions of corpses were left to rot in the desert, and
> each one certified to the dishonesty of Jehovah. I cannot believe
> these things. They are so cruel and heartless, that my blood is
> chilled and my sense of justice shocked. A book that is equally
> abhorrent to my head and heart, cannot be accepted as a revelation
> from God.
>
> ```
> When we think of the poor Jews, destroyed, murdered, bitten by
>
> ```
>
> serpents, visited by plagues, decimated by famine, butchered by
> each other, swallowed by the earth, frightened, cursed, starved,
> deceived, robbed and outraged, how thankful we should be that we
> are not the chosen people of God. No wonder that they longed for
> the slavery of Egypt, and remembered with sorrow the unhappy day
> when they exchanged masters. Compared with Jehovah, Pharaoh was a
> benefactor, and the tyranny of Egypt was freedom to those who
> suffered the liberty of God.
>
> ```
> While reading the Pentateuch, I am filled with indignation,
>
> ```
>
> pity and horror. Nothing can be sadder than the history of the
> starved and frightened wretches who wandered over the desolate
> crags and sands of wilderness and desert, the prey of famine,
> sword, and plague. Ignorant and superstitious to the last degree,
> governed by falsehood, plundered by hypocrisy, they were the sport
> of priests, and the food of fear. God was their greatest enemy, and
> death their only friend.
>
> ```
> It is impossible to conceive of a more thoroughly despicable,
>
> ```
>
> hateful, and arrogant being, than the Jewish god. He is without a
> redeeming feature. In the mythology of the world he has no
> parallel. He, only, is never touched by agony and tears. He
> delights only in blood and pain. Human affections are naught to
> him. He cares neither for love nor music, beauty nor Joy. A false
> friend, an unjust judge, a braggart, hypocrite, and tyrant, sincere
> in hatred, jealous, vain, and revengeful, false in promise, honest
> in curse, suspicious, ignorant, and changeable, infamous and
> hideous: – such is the God of the Pentateuch.
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/19 "2013-12-24T09:04:41Z")
Der Trihs writes:
\> If he’s omnipotent then he by definition can.
That’s your definition of “omnipotent.” There are other people who don’t accept that definition.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2013, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-wwii-was-a-good-thing/677013/20 "2013-12-24T10:04:00Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#):
>
> That’s your definition of “omnipotent.” There are other people who don’t accept that definition.
Then they are playing word games. They are trying to claim that God is omnipotent and good by changing the definition of the word and pretending that they aren’t.
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