# So You \[God\] think you're all that and more? Prove it! \[ed. title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411 "2011-04-06T16:34:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411/81 "2011-04-08T00:43:11Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > as long as I don’t have to give up what makes the rocking world go round I’d be ok…for the right price. No, Allah’s cool on the fat-bottomed girls issue. Unlike some gods I could name. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411/82 "2011-04-08T03:48:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For the purposes of this thread it really doesn’t matter, does it? I asked what would convince _you_-I gave no guarantee that he would comply with your request. And where is the debate? Looks like you’ve posted in the wrong forum. Physician, heal thyself. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411/83 "2011-04-08T06:11:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s true. I was omniscient once. But I didn’t know it at the time. I was omniscient once and not only did I know it full well, I rubbed it in everyone’s damn faces. It’s called being a teenager ;). ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411/84 "2011-04-08T11:51:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Believing in immutable natural laws is limiting to the mind. It puts up barriers that inhibit human potential. Believing in God makes all things possible, including overcoming immutable natural laws. So if you believe in God, and jump off the top of a buiding you’ll..? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411/85 "2011-04-08T15:52:14Z")
> [@BunnyTVS](#): > > So if you believe in God, and jump off the top of a buiding you’ll..? When I was a teenager, I based a D&D religion off this idea, sort of. More it was believing in the power of truth: the orcish clerics of the religion were sworn to absolute, unflinching honesty, and even among everyday people a deliberate lie was a capital offense. The clerics were initiated in the priesthood by leaping from a tall cliff. They had to speak true words describing their survival (“I will be blown back by the wind/I will turn into an eagle/I will float gently to the ground” etc.) or die. Of course, troubadours and other storytellers were considered the worst sorts of heretics, and the PCs engaged in the daring rescue of some poets from the civilization’s religious police. It was good fun for a teenager. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411/86 "2011-04-13T12:16:27Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > This model of God that this challenge seems aimed at is quite bizarre to me. I believe in God, but what I think of as his nature makes the overwhelming majority of these, shall I say “requests”, utterly meaningless. To me, it’s sort of like a little kid asking their parents to prove that they love them by fulfilling any number of ridiculous requests. “Mom, if you really love me, you’ll buy me a pony.” And then, when the mom doesn’t buy her daughter a pony, the kid concludes that the parent doesn’t love her. The reason this test fails is because the action that is supposed to prove it doesn’t actually have any tie to it at all. Moreso, as demonstrated with spoiled kids, a parent may get their child something they want, not because they love them, but just to shut them up, or some other reason. > > Asking God to prove his omniscience through a series of trivial tests doesn’t actually do anything. For each one, even if your request is fulfilled, it doesn’t actually prove anything. For instance, as someone else mentioned, asking God to prove his omniscience by giving someone else a test drive, at best, only proves that he’s capable of making someone believe that they’d had that test drive. > > In fact, asking God to prove this sort of thing utterly misses the entire point. Besides that it doesn’t really matter whether he is or not, though I would argue that any being powerful enough to create the universe is, for all intents and purposes, qualitatively indistinguishable from omnipotent, from which follows omniscience. But more importantly, what we should be searching for are the implications of the creation. To me ,if a God knows all things he wouldn’t need prayers, or have his children beg for things. If one needs something, a good human father (if he knows) will provide for the child, if it is harful he will not give it no matter how much a child begs. Nor would he punish his childs ancestors,because a child made a mistake, or if the child knew right from wrong. He would explain to the child the consequences of a bad action. The big difference is a Supreme All Knowing Being would know all this even before a child is conceived ! Not being an all knowing God I couldn’t do this, but if I knew I wouldn’t conceive a child I knew would do evil, nor would I allow a evil monster that I could create harm my child. A good parent doesn’t have a child to love, homor or worship him/her, they have a child so they can express their love for the child. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411/87 "2011-04-13T12:20:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > When I was a teenager, I based a D&D religion off this idea, sort of. More it was believing in the power of truth: the orcish clerics of the religion were sworn to absolute, unflinching honesty, and even among everyday people a deliberate lie was a capital offense. The clerics were initiated in the priesthood by leaping from a tall cliff. They had to speak true words describing their survival (“I will be blown back by the wind/I will turn into an eagle/I will float gently to the ground” etc.) or die. > > Of course, troubadours and other storytellers were considered the worst sorts of heretics, and the PCs engaged in the daring rescue of some poets from the civilization’s religious police. It was good fun for a teenager. So what happened if the orc priest-to-be strictly adhered to the ethos and stated “I’m going to splat like a ripe watermelon, aren’t I ? Bollocks.” ? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411/88 "2011-04-13T15:23:04Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So what happened if the orc priest-to-be strictly adhered to the ethos and stated “I’m going to splat like a ripe watermelon, aren’t I ? Bollocks.” ? He automatically becomes Pope…for about seven and a half seconds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-god-think-youre-all-that-and-more-prove-it-ed-title/577411.md?page=4)