# So you killed your kid while cleaning your gun. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020 "2013-03-26T17:03:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/21 "2013-03-26T19:23:50Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > “Are you sure you want to be shooting _that_? That’s way too much gun for you, sugar tits. Here, try this snub-nosed purse gun. Isn’t that better?” Funny enough, I’d agree if they were being nice. Most pistols _are_ too much for me; I have absolutely no wrist control. Shotguns, though? Gimme. And one glorious afternoon in Vegas I got to fire an MP5K which was sooooooo sweeeeeeet…I can’t even tell you. If that is a girl gun, I am all for it! **billfish** , 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/22 "2013-03-26T19:27:17Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > Accidents happen. I have no opinion on the gun debate (except that I’m heartily sick of it). But every kind of retardiculous accident of which the imagination can conceive has probably happened at some point in history. “Accident” is too generous. “Accident” is when circumstances arise that could not reasonably be foreseen or prevented. What this guy did is the textbook definition of [“negligent discharge.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligent_discharge) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/23 "2013-03-26T19:38:44Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Funny enough, I’d agree if they were being nice. Most pistols _are_ too much for me; I have absolutely no wrist control. Shotguns, though? Gimme. And one glorious afternoon in Vegas I got to fire an MP5K which was sooooooo sweeeeeeet…I can’t even tell you. If that is a girl gun, I am all for it! This anecdote in the context of this thread made me think back to the poor kid whose Dad gave him the Uzi to shoot at a gun range. Remember, the average person has an IQ of 100. It’s just not reasonable to expect the population at large to be able to capably handle firearms. Given that failing to attend sufficiently to foreseeable risks is negligence, and given that we can be guaranteed that people are going to continue to shoot themselves and their children with their firearms, it is negligence on our part to continue to allow this to happen. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/24 "2013-03-26T19:44:39Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > given that we can be guaranteed that people are going to continue to shoot themselves and their children with their firearms, it is negligence on our part to continue to allow this to happen. So _you_ shot this guy’s kid?:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/25 "2013-03-26T19:48:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This anecdote in the context of this thread made me think back to the poor kid whose Dad gave him the Uzi to shoot at a gun range. > > Remember, the average person has an IQ of 100. It’s just not reasonable to expect the population at large to be able to capably handle firearms. > > Given that failing to attend sufficiently to foreseeable risks is negligence, and given that we can be guaranteed that people are going to continue to shoot themselves and their children with their firearms, it is negligence on our part to continue to allow this to happen. I agree, so why aren’t we insisting on training and education and classes? Why do we still think everyone and anyone should have a gun, no questions asked? Riiiiight. What happened to the kid? I promise you, I did not shoot anyone or anything but the targets. :eek: But the rangemasters there were very competent and nice and constantly observant…when you are firing these weapons they are with you every step of the way. I wish all of them were like that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/26 "2013-03-26T19:55:57Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > What happened to the kid? As might be anticipated, he was not strong enough to handle the recoil and the gun flipped over. He shot himself in the head and died. There’s a video of it, at least of his dad setting him up with the weapon.. Unlike others who happily link to videos of gun incidents, I will not. It makes me sad and sick, even if I’ve not seen the conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/27 "2013-03-26T20:07:17Z")
I don’t want to watch the video. I can’t even watch the videos that are posted of real US soldiers, going into real battle, getting shot at. ☹ Even if I am told ahead of time no one dies. Those are real people out there, fighting. Poor kid. I can see how dad might have thought he was being the Cool Dad by letting his kid fire a gun that was way too big for him, but look at what happened. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/28 "2013-03-26T20:13:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The OP laid all the blame on the father for being negligent. Nothing was said about the gun being bad. But you’re acting like Machine Elf should apologize to the gun for possibly hurting its feelings. Apparently, a Mr. Mackey reference isn’t as relevant as it once was. Now I feel a little old. Let’s assume for just a moment that maybe this guy is already torn with grief over having accidentally shot and killed his son. I think piling insults and wishes for additional torment on top of that, as the OP did, is in incredibly poor taste. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/29 "2013-03-26T20:18:30Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This anecdote in the context of this thread made me think back to the poor kid whose Dad gave him the Uzi to shoot at a gun range. . . . Ouch… My papa played a funny prank on me, many many many years ago. He had a _sweet_ little over-and-under .22/.410. Little bitty .22 rifle on top, nice .410 shotgun beneath. He took me out to an embankment, taught me how to lean into the recoil, and let me shoot. The .22 went _pop._ Okay, I think I got it… He switched to the .410, and the recoil knocked me right over on my ass. He thought it was funny… ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/30 "2013-03-26T20:19:03Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Manslaughter is a felony, so if he gets convicted, yes, that should preclude future possession of firearms. It would be nice if everyone thought that way; [however…](http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/03/felons-gun-rights-unconstitutional-louisiana) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/31 "2013-03-26T20:31:31Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > Let’s assume for just a moment that maybe this guy is already torn with grief over having accidentally shot and killed his son. I think piling insults and wishes for additional torment on top of that, as the OP did, is in incredibly poor taste. Dude shot his son in the face. Any insults and wishes for additional torment that could possibly be heaped upon him are _less_ than he deserves. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/32 "2013-03-26T20:34:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Ouch… My papa played a funny prank on me, many many many years ago. He had a _sweet_ little over-and-under .22/.410. Little bitty .22 rifle on top, nice .410 shotgun beneath. > > He took me out to an embankment, taught me how to lean into the recoil, and let me shoot. The .22 went _pop._ Okay, I think I got it… He switched to the .410, and the recoil knocked me right over on my ass. > > He thought it was funny… A friend of my dad did the same sort of prank with me. I target shot a .22, he then loaded up a 12 gauge with a sawn off barrel and told me it had the same recoil. Put ten year old me on my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/33 "2013-03-26T20:36:11Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > You must have missed the memo. “Celebrating” is how the gun rights people try to spin tragic events like this one and remove irresponsible gun ownership as a topic of discussion. If you point out some way in which our culture of guns is damaging to society it turn into: “Why are you celebrating \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_?” Let’s be clear. I’m not accusing the OP of celebrating the death of the child. What he appears to be celebrating is the suffering and ruined life of the father. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/34 "2013-03-26T20:37:36Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > The part that angers me about it is the reporting. The father didn’t accidently shoot his son in the head. The father negligently shot his son in the head. Let’s call it what it is. This is exactly right. Firearms do NOT operate themselves. If you shoot someone it is because something that you did violates at least one of the Four Rules. There are no “accidents”, only negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/35 "2013-03-26T20:47:27Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > What he appears to be celebrating is the suffering and ruined life of the father. You think “oh, that poor, poor, man” is a more appropriate response than outrage? The kid didn’t just up and die: _his father killed him._ And it’s not like he was backing out of the garage and the kid jumped out of his hiding spot in the bushes and got run over. The man took a loaded gun, pointed it at his kid’s head, and pulled the fucking trigger. I will be satisifed if, years from now, I see this guy on TV doing public service announcements: “Don’t kill your kid like I did. Take a firearm safety course and follow the rules for responsible firearms ownership.” ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/36 "2013-03-26T20:48:52Z")
1: Treat every weapon as if it were loaded. 2: Only point the barrel at things you want to kill. 3: Finger off the trigger until you’re ready to fire. 4: Know what’s around and behind your target. 4 simple rules of gun safety. They really aren’t hard. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/37 "2013-03-26T20:56:06Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > 1: Treat every weapon as if it were loaded. > 2: Only point the barrel at things you want to kill. > 3: Finger off the trigger until you’re ready to fire. > 4: Know what’s around and behind your target. > 4 simple rules of gun safety. They really aren’t hard. Reminds me of my brother, when we went to visit Disneyland. Some of us thought it would be good to formulate a plan of where we should meet up in case we got lost. His reaction: just don’t get lost! Simple rule. The problem is that reality dictates which rules are simple. Everyone follows the rules right up until they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/38 "2013-03-26T21:08:31Z")
You know, it isn’t, actually, quite so simple and easy as all that. In Afghanistan, there were negligent discharges ALL the time, amongst people who regularly received firearms training, and who’s jobs included handling firearms, and most of those were during the cleaning process. (side note: this is why my personal M9 sat in its holster for 6 months…yeah, it was filthy when I turned it in, but I never shot anyone with it.) Every once in a while someone got shot, and very rarely, someone would get killed. If it can happen to them, it can happen to pretty much anyone. This man is no doubt in a world of grief and guilt right now that we can’t even fathom. I have nothing but sympathy for him. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/39 "2013-03-26T21:13:32Z")
Google accidental discharge and remington 700. This is why you must always exercise muzzle discipline. Guns can be defective like any other product. I forget which gun it was but there was a gun that could fire when you disnegaged the safety. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/40 "2013-03-26T21:35:06Z")
If only someone had mentioned gun safety to this dad… > **[I pit anti-gun pediatricians](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=685866)** > > I took my kid to the pediatrician the other day and they asked mea bunch of questions about things like his vocabulary, his pre-school, his potty training and the last question was “do you have a firearm in the house?” I said yes and asked why they... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020.md?page=3)