# So you killed your kid while cleaning your gun. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020 "2013-03-26T17:03:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/81 "2013-03-27T13:34:57Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Once again with feeling, you can make all the simple rules you like. The only proof that your rules are effective is if they are followed. That’s true. That’s why I suggest we have the NRA develop basic gun safety classes to teach in public schools along with sex education. It’s easy to know the rules but it really takes training to ingrain them until they are a habit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/82 "2013-03-27T13:42:01Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Guns don’t go off by accident. Yes they can, rarely. [http://news.yahoo.com/remington-model-700-rifle-fire-without-trigger-pull-220626668.html](http://news.yahoo.com/remington-model-700-rifle-fire-without-trigger-pull-220626668.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/83 "2013-03-27T13:43:57Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > That’s true. That’s why I suggest we have the NRA develop basic gun safety classes to teach in public schools along with sex education. “Nanny state! Socialism! Obamaguns!” It’ll never fly, Wilbur. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/84 "2013-03-27T13:44:14Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > That’s true. That’s why I suggest we have the NRA develop basic gun safety classes to teach in public schools along with sex education. It’s easy to know the rules but it really takes training to ingrain them until they are a habit. It is odd how you always combine sex and guns when you bring this proposal up. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/85 "2013-03-27T13:47:24Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It is odd how you always combine sex and guns when you bring this proposal up. That’s my way to make sure republican kids learn to use condoms and democrat kids learn to be safe with guns. Stephen Covey says to always look for the win-win. How do you like the idea? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/86 "2013-03-27T13:48:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > “Nanny state! Socialism! Obamaguns!” > > It’ll never fly, Wilbur. Why not? Do you secretly like accidental gun deaths? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/87 "2013-03-27T13:53:55Z")
It makes no sense to deliver an educational program to a group in which the majority will never have any need of it. Smacks of ulterior motives. Hell, it doesn’t smack of it, it is preceded by a marching band with banners and clowns on little bicycles. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/88 "2013-03-27T13:56:11Z")
Gun ownership isn’t the problem. Plenty of hobbies can have accidental deadly consequences. You could fall off your mountain bike and die. You could have your mountain bike racked on the wall and it could fall off and kill your kid. The problem is the lack of training and certification to become a gun owner. It would be better if becoming a gun owner was more like becoming a private pilot. They would have to go through extensive supervised training. Safety would be a primary part of the education. Owners would have checklists they go through every time they use the gun. Regular recertification would be required. If you don’t pass, you lose your rights to operate guns. Instead, the only requirements is to be a certain age and not be a criminal. There are lots of people who are not competent enough to be responsible gun owners. It would be better if there was some education process where those people could be taught proper gun procedures or prevented from owning guns if they could not do it responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/89 "2013-03-27T14:13:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It makes no sense to deliver an educational program to a group in which the majority will never have any need of it. > > Smacks of ulterior motives. Hell, it doesn’t smack of it, it is preceded by a marching band with banners and clowns on little bicycles. That makes no sense what so ever. In fact a lot of your position is sounding a little extreme. _Every_ gun owner has need of gun education. Every moment they are handling and storing their weapon. As a pro gun person I endorse mandatory gun education training. In this case I believe it would have saved a life. . ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/90 "2013-03-27T14:15:19Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Gun ownership isn’t the problem. Plenty of hobbies can have accidental deadly consequences. You could fall off your mountain bike and die. You could have your mountain bike racked on the wall and it could fall off and kill your kid. The problem is the lack of training and certification to become a gun owner. > > It would be better if becoming a gun owner was more like becoming a private pilot. They would have to go through extensive supervised training. Safety would be a primary part of the education. Owners would have checklists they go through every time they use the gun. Regular recertification would be required. If you don’t pass, you lose your rights to operate guns. > > Instead, the only requirements is to be a certain age and not be a criminal. There are lots of people who are not competent enough to be responsible gun owners. It would be better if there was some education process where those people could be taught proper gun procedures or prevented from owning guns if they could not do it responsibly. I like this. When biotech becomes viable, you could add it in so that the only person firing a given weapon is one who is certified to do so. I wonder if there is a way to add in policing of the vaunted RULES? Say, if someone points a weapon anywhere other than downrange, they lose their right to use firearms? Or points their weapon at something they don’t intend to shoot? How does that sound? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/91 "2013-03-27T14:16:22Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > That makes no sense what so ever. In fact a lot of your position is sounding a little extreme. _Every_ gun owner has need of gun education. Every moment they are handling and storing their weapon. > > As a pro gun person I endorse mandatory gun education training. In this case I believe it would have saved a life. > > . You do realize that most children in public schools will never handle a firearm, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/92 "2013-03-27T14:17:06Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It makes no sense to deliver an educational program to a group in which the majority will never have any need of it. There will soon be more guns in america than people. All people should know basic guns safety in such a culture. It would save lives I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/93 "2013-03-27T14:18:24Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > That makes no sense what so ever. In fact a lot of your position is sounding a little extreme. _Every_ gun owner has need of gun education. Every moment they are handling and storing their weapon. > > As a pro gun person I endorse mandatory gun education training. In this case I believe it would have saved a life. > > . He’s talking about public schools. The mandatory NRA gun-safety thing he’s talking about is for children. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/94 "2013-03-27T14:19:21Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You do realize that most children in public schools will never handle a firearm, right? I think in their lifetime, most will handle a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/95 "2013-03-27T14:20:12Z")
Yeah, that kid would have learnt to duck. This is a poor attempt at black humour ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/96 "2013-03-27T14:20:45Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > There will soon be more guns in america than people. All people should know basic guns safety in such a culture. It would save lives I’m sure. The fact that gun nuts hoard vast quantities of firearms has nothing to do with how often normal people encounter firearms. You, as a representative of gun nuts, don’t get to stockpile and then also claim that the stockpiling means everyone should get your educational programming. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/97 "2013-03-27T14:22:20Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I think in their lifetime, most will handle a gun. I think your thought processes have been sufficiently revealed to be so suspect that statements like the one I’ve quoted have as much bearing on intelligent discussion as a fart in an elevator. That is to say, most people will endure it only so long as it takes for them to get away from you. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/98 "2013-03-27T14:23:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It makes no sense to deliver an educational program to a group in which the majority will never have any need of it. Great, so can we stop teaching people CPR too? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/99 "2013-03-27T14:32:12Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Great, so can we stop teaching people CPR too? No, we should do that and gun safety (plus sex ed simultaneously because this is for fighting and this is for fun) and also have a universal elementary school program in which children practice escaping from a submerged vehicle. We can have a junior high program on Schedule C tax return preparation guidelines. We can do a high school universal program on avoiding death during auto-erotic asphyxiation. We may need to reduce the time we expect students to commit to math, for example, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020/100 "2013-03-27T14:47:30Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You do realize that most children in public schools will never handle a firearm, right? I was speaking to mandatory education if owning but to address your specific concern, the ones that do handle one will understand how not to accidentally kill someone when they do. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-killed-your-kid-while-cleaning-your-gun/654020.md?page=6)