# So you sell the the tracking device the FBI planted in your car... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614 "2010-11-14T02:23:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Baraqiyal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Baraqiyal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baraqiyal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/1 "2010-11-14T02:23:32Z")
What would happen if you find a tracking device hidden in your car, wired into the electrical system, and decide to detach it and sell it on Craig’s List, then the FBI knocks on your door demanding their tracking device back? Could you be charged with stealing it or trafficking in stolen goods even though you had no idea who it belonged to or how it got there? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/2 "2010-11-14T02:25:58Z")
Do you need an answer fast? ---
**Author:** ![Baraqiyal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Baraqiyal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baraqiyal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/3 "2010-11-14T02:32:59Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Do you need an answer fast? No, this is just a hypothetical based on something that happened on [Reddit](http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dmh5s/does_this_mean_the_fbi_is_after_us/) recently. I’m just curious what would have happened to the guy if he sold the thing before he had a chance to give it back to the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/4 "2010-11-14T02:33:32Z")
Depending on how it’s labeled and the occupation of the person who’s car it was on (should they be able to recognize it), an attorney could probably argue that the person just thought it was a car part he was selling. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/5 "2010-11-14T02:40:07Z")
I have no idea, but I do wanna know. ---
**Author:** ![AmunRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AmunRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmunRa)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/6 "2010-11-14T04:18:40Z")
[Here’s](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/fbi-tracking-device/) an article from Wired that tells the whole story. I doubt we will get a definitive answer since Afifi (the target of the FBI’s efforts) handed the device over without protest. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/7 "2010-11-14T13:45:33Z")
> [@AmunRa](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/fbi-tracking-device/) an article from Wired that tells the whole story. > > I doubt we will get a definitive answer since Afifi (the target of the FBI’s efforts) handed the device over without protest. Too bad he didn’t run over it (accidentally) first. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/8 "2010-11-14T15:09:19Z")
Wouldn’t the FBI need to provide proof that they owned the actual item you sold? Not just a similar item, but that exact one? (Perhaps some third party removed the FBI’s tracking item, and replaced it before you found it.) Also, I do’t see how “stolen goods” would come into play, since you didn’t steal the item. ETA: well, they posted photos showing the serial numbers, so I guess the FBI could show it was their item in this case… ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/9 "2010-11-14T15:58:26Z")
Wrap it in foil and bury in in the next town. Don’t need $$$ nuff to admit I knew it was there by trying to sell it. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/10 "2010-11-14T16:04:30Z")
I can’t see selling the device if you’re under investigation anyway. Dropping it into a giant tank of liquid pig manure would be so much better. Better yet attach it to a cat roaming the neighborhood. Misinformation is always a better use of a spy device. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/11 "2010-11-14T16:23:53Z")
Wouldn’t it have some sort of anti-tamper device? accelerometer/magnetic bond sensor maybe. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/12 "2010-11-14T16:37:13Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Too bad he didn’t run over it (accidentally) first. Is it illgal to destroy such a thing? I think there are electronic countermeasures that can electronically “fry” bugging devices. I _know_ there are devices that can detect and find them. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/13 "2010-11-14T16:47:53Z")
If the FBI put the device there, they would definately have the back up records to prove they did it. If someone took it off and sold it on eBay/CL , the person would have to put an ad on eBay/CL and they would have to describe it. So you defintely would know what you’re selling. In the unlikely event, they would compromise their whole investigation for a spy device, tthey would ask you. You would tell them what happened. Then it becomes a regular old case of, “can a thief pass title of an item” This is interesting case law and there is a ton of it out there. Just google around for “passing title” and thief. In most instances a thief can’t pass title, but there are a lot of exceptions and that’s where the fun starts. And it’s not just “thieves” in the traditional sense. You have things like husbands leaving wives and the wife selling things that clearly weren’t hers. I recall of a case in Chicago where the judge ruled she could sell it and pass title, as the husband left her high and dry and she had no money. Which seemed to imply if the lady had money or a job, the ruling might have went the other way. Certainly the FBI could arrest and hold you, and charge you, but getting the charges to stick? In this case it’d probably lead to a plea bargain. “Look we got you for trafficking, if you co-operate with our original investigation, we’ll drop those charges.” ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/14 "2010-11-14T16:58:13Z")
I like the idea of attaching it to neighborhood animals. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/15 "2010-11-14T17:05:45Z")
But this isn’t one of those lost and found situations where you’re obligated to try to find the rightful owner of tha wallet full of cash. The FBI abandoned the device on Afifi’s private property. Also, there was no cautionary note telling who it belonged to or who to contact. It belonged to Afifi, the guy they gave it to. Too late man, you gave it back. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/16 "2010-11-15T16:41:46Z")
The government has a lot of examples where it exempt itself from the law to perform its duties. I would be suprised if there was not a law covering that equipment law enforcement places on/in your property is still theirs. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/17 "2010-11-15T17:01:10Z")
Am I the only one surprised at how _freaking huge_ that GPS tracking device is? I understand there must be a multitude of other factors at play here, but if I can go on the internet and figure out where I left my iPhone using its GPS tracking capabilities, you’ve gotta think there must be a less conspicuous way to track a car (and providing the device with power.) ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/18 "2010-11-15T17:22:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Am I the only one surprised at how _freaking huge_ that GPS tracking device is? I understand there must be a multitude of other factors at play here, but if I can go on the internet and figure out where I left my iPhone using its GPS tracking capabilities, you’ve gotta think there must be a less conspicuous way to track a car (and providing the device with power.) Yeah, it looks Russian to me. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/19 "2010-11-15T17:46:16Z")
The FBI stated that was an older GPS tracking device. Also, either the FBI itself or a consultant said that now-a-days they usually hide the device better. But, besides that, the reason for the size is two-fold: it has to transmit its location and battery life. I can think of another reason and that would be a more sensitive GPS receiver device that will work underneath a steel car. A transmitter unit will add bulk to the device, especially if you want it to be reliable in all conditions: tunnels, parking garages, etc. This also applies to reason three above. Then, you want the device to run for an extended period of time. If you are tracking a suspect you will want to track them for as long as possible between replacing the unit or battery pack. Every time you approach the vehicle in question you risk serious exposure. A transmitting unit, depending how often it will transmit its location, will chew up a battery quick. Real quick. Then, you factor in any control circuitry that is taking the info from the GPS, formatting it in whatever data string that you want, and then telling the transmitter to transmit that location, and the period that you want. So, it may look old and archaic but that is probably because they wanted it to be environmentally durable, reliable, and have an extended run time. If you were to take a GPS unit and connected it to the cars electrical system and you know you have no power constraints then you can go all out in a small package. Increase that transmit power, better GPS unit, etc. All those things are factors when designing a device like this when it comes to power. You eliminate that power requirement variable then things get much easier. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614/20 "2010-11-15T17:54:20Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > If you were to take a GPS unit and connected it to the cars electrical system… Yeah, this is what I was thinking with my parenthetical. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-sell-the-the-tracking-device-the-fbi-planted-in-your-car/560614.md?page=2)