# So you think you're a damn POET too? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 11, 1999, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764 "1999-10-11T04:59:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sake\_Samurai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sake\_Samurai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sake_Samurai)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 1999, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/61 "1999-11-01T00:12:00Z")
**Rousseau** : My OP was not a response to anyone’s posting on the SDMB. While it’s true there’s a lot of bad poetry scattered throughout the forums, there’s also a lot of funny ones. I can take a joke. I only cringe at bad poetry that was intended seriously. BTW, I truly LOVE drumming - what else do we have in common?? **Sunflower** : You are, of course, free to write poetry. Please don’t interpret what I’m saying as “Only established, older poets should be heard and published.” I don’t think that. I have even stated that the BIGGEST poet in our nation (Robert Pinsky) is overrated. (a Pinsky tangent - It’s great that he’s enthusiastic about poetry. It’s great that he’s a very good translator [although I still haven’t found out if he is truly fluent in Italian - does anyone here know?]. What’s not great is that he is a poor, unoriginal poet and he holds the highest honor in the nation. It just reinforces that it’s a purely political position and not about the actual poetry - which is sad.) Poetry is a gift which is scattered all around us. Gather it whenever possible. * * * Hell is Other People. ---
**Author:** ![Sunflower18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sunflower18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunflower18)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 1999, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/62 "1999-11-01T03:28:00Z")
Sake Samurai…I know you didn’t mean that only older established poets should be published. I am only speaking of the experiances I have had, and what I have seen happen to other young poets. * * * Give these \* \* - - ``` clay feet ``` wings to fly \* \* \* \* \* to touch the face of the stars \* ~_~Loreena Mckennitt~_ ---
**Author:** ![Rousseau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Rousseau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rousseau)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 1999, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/63 "1999-11-01T22:03:00Z")
Well, for one, we basically warded off a rabid group of pro-choicers single-handedly. And I have yet to read a post of yours that I really disagree with. * * * The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 1999, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/64 "1999-11-01T22:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, for one, we basically warded off a rabid group of pro-choicers single-handedly. That’s funny…last I saw, that thread was still going on strong. ---
**Author:** ![Rousseau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Rousseau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rousseau)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 1999, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/65 "1999-11-01T22:55:00Z")
Then update it to the present tense. You know what I mean. I swear, sometimes the semantical arguments on this list are just plain mind-numbing. * * * The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group. ---
**Author:** ![Rousseau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Rousseau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rousseau)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 1999, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/66 "1999-11-01T22:57:00Z")
P.S.- Flaming bj0rn’s unintelligible posts does NOT constitute a “semantical argument.” * * * The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 1999, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/67 "1999-11-02T03:56:00Z")
For my first ever post, please allow me to present a large target. It appears that some contributers to this thread have made sweeping pronouncements based upon a limited exposure to English language poetry in this century (or last, for that matter). While I agree that much drivel has been inflicted on the world in the name of free verse, I do not agree that that fact implies that free verse itself it therefore without merit. Condemning an art form due to the mediocrity of the majority of its practitioners would lead to thing like the blanket condemnation of pop music, rap music, and every movie made in Hollywood since 1939. _hmmmmmmmm – maybe the idea has merit after all . . ._ Those of you who are even moderately read in modern poetry will no doubt infer from my handle and sig how I feel about the potential of a poetic form that moves beyond the structure of hard rhyme and meter. Those who are not might like to sample one of the finest lyric poems of the last 5 centuries before entrenching too deeply behind the fortifications of hard rhyme and even meter. To some, poetry is the aural expression of the language of symbol, a medium of sound and metaphor that holds beauty and power in the echoes of memory and emotion. It can be aided by the structures of rhyme and rhythm, but it can also be trapped by them. On a side note, ee Cumming was actually a very traditional poet. Much of his work was strictly formal in all things except typography. If you look closely, you will see quatrains aplenty and more than a few sonnets among his body of work. It is only on the page (superficial appearance, anyone?) that his poems appear to lack structure. On a central note–young poets, let no one dissuade you from where your heart leads. Young critics – if you surf to a person’s website and see an expression of personal import that is “offensively” framed in free verse (or doggerel, for that matter) a number of options are open to you. 1. realize that you are a guest (invited or not) and smile at your hosts earnest effort – been there done that. 2. smile smugle and feel secure in the skill of your OWN artistic efforts – done that too, never claimed I was a saint 3. Flame the poor bastard for daring to not live up to your artistic standards in all expressions that have any chance of passing before your exalted eyes and ears – nope, that means you’re an asshole and on your own as far as I’m concerned. Newbie season is now open * * * _The best lack all conviction The worst are full of passionate intensity_ ---
**Author:** ![ChrisCTP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@ChrisCTP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisCTP)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 1999, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/68 "1999-11-02T03:58:00Z")
Spiritus: I like you. * * * “ChrisCTP-…the sweetheart of the SDMB…” --Diane Chris’ Homepage: [Domestic Bliss](http://www2.crosswinds.net/~domesticbliss/) ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 1999, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/69 "1999-11-02T04:01:00Z")
Thanks Chris. ## Wow, being flamed doesn’t hurt nearly as much as I thought it might. _The best lack all conviction The worst are full of passionate intensity_ ---
**Author:** ![Rousseau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Rousseau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rousseau)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 1999, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/70 "1999-11-02T04:21:00Z")
ee Cummings has nothing on my haiku about bj0rn. Spiritus: Speak when you’re spoken to, you ugly smelly piece of trash. God, I can’t _stand_ you. You make me sick. Go to hell. Go to hell and die. (For the sake of being PC, I will herein indicate that I am kidding. It’s not that I don’t trust your ablility to understand this fact, but believe me, there are people around here who don’t.) * * * The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 1999, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/71 "1999-11-02T04:29:00Z")
_Kidding!!_ How dare you kid with me you monolobed, hypocephalic, metrically challenged, non-rhyming dude! hmmm, wonder if I should include a disclaimer here? Haiku is a pome A bit like a metronome All meter, no rhyme ---
**Author:** ![Rousseau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Rousseau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rousseau)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 1999, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/72 "1999-11-02T04:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > hmmm, wonder if I should include a disclaimer here? ## For your _information_, the correct way to say that is “hmmm, **I** wonder if I should include a disclaimer here.” Stop butchering my language, communist. The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 1999, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/73 "1999-11-02T04:47:00Z")
hmmmm, wonder of all monolobes are incapable of appreciating the implied subject. [I am} merely completing the gestation of a caprine. [You are a] Phillistine!! * * * _The best lack all conviction The worst are full of passionate intensity_ ---
**Author:** ![Rousseau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Rousseau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rousseau)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 1999, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/74 "1999-11-02T22:54:00Z")
There’s only one “l” in **Philistine** , you flat-headed troglodyte. * * * The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 1999, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/75 "1999-11-03T05:43:00Z")
This is fun – but I fear we have lost sight of the original thread. (Or maybe no body else cares about poetry.) Perhaps they are all happily immersed in _The Second Coming_ or perhaps \*Great Limericks of the Western world[\i]. Regardless, you have decimated my position with your uncanny focus on typography. (A closet cummings fan, perhaps?) I wither before a gaze blank and pitiless as the sun. * * * _The best lack all conviction The worst are full of passionate intensity_ ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 1999, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/76 "1999-11-03T08:07:00Z")
Insult can have a passion, and depth, which gives it the rank of true poetry. To reach those levels one must feel the disdain deeply, and give free reign to the urge to achieve the ultimate in insult: The insult that must be explained! How sweet it is to lead some blithe free spirit back around the verbal battle ground, and point out the sharp nick which they had not noticed, and the blood trail of their incompetent rejoinder, the clumsy knot they tied into their own intellectual entrails, as they searched for a hiding place. On other matters: Most people are not poets. Sadly, most poets are not poets either. But write your poetry, by all means. The great value of it is not in the renown you receive from others, but in the passion you feel as you express yourself. Avoid the mistake of thinking that your work is something a whole lot of other people need, or in any way would like to read. Sharing ones poetry is even more intimate than sex. Yes, the great works of the language have enriched us all, but we are talking about you, and your work. Write it down, and put it away, read it in a few decades. If you don’t throw up, save it. Hell, save it anyway, “Listen to the Trifid” was the best selling book of poetry in the history of the English language, go figure. \

Tris\ ---

**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 1999, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/77 "1999-11-04T05:50:00Z")
I’m sorry, but you simply are not going to tell me that “There was a young lady named Bright” is a poem and that the works of Sylvia Plath are not. Anyway: > [@](#): > > TVeblen brings up some good points (and well put). The only thing I have to add is that I have no problem with people trying to express their thoughts and emotions in poetry. I just have a problem with them forcing it upon others. I do too! How dare someone grab you, strap you down, and read poetry aloud to you while keeping you awake with amphetamines? Oh, wait. I suppose that’s not your problem. In which case I would say, don’t buy the damn book, espece de con. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 1999, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/78 "1999-11-04T06:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > OpalCat: To the “free verse isn’t poetry” person: Hahaha. Just had to say that. Me, I can’t stand rhyming poetry; 99 times out of 100 it sounds like nursery rhymes. {shrug} Hey, if you think W. Shakespeare and J. Keats sounds like M. Goose, that would certainly be your opinion. Don’t know anyone else who would share it, _la belle dame sans merci_. {NB: For those who’d like to check out one of the finest poems in the English language that – shock!! – rhymes, check out [http://hem.passagen.se/jonnyl/keats/autumn.htm](http://hem.passagen.se/jonnyl/keats/autumn.htm) } {NB iter.: For a good rhyming poem that is nursery-rhymish, and yet, excellent literature, check out: [http://members.tripod.com/lostsoul/lamb.HTM](http://members.tripod.com/lostsoul/lamb.HTM) } > [@](#): > > Melatonin: As the self-designated inserter of semi-off-topic snotty intellectual asides, I feel compelled to imform y’all that free verse has nothing to do with rhyme. Free verse is the opposite of metrical verse. It can be rhymed or unrhymed. Well, sure, I knew that. But when was the last time you saw someone eschew the hegemony of meter, cadence, and verse and yet remained enthralled to the suffocating straightjacket of rhyme? Now let me illustrate another point about free verse with a free verse poem by RW Emerson: > [@](#): > > But in other hours Nature satisfies by its loveliness, > And without any mixture of corporeal benefit. I see the spectacle of morning from the hill-top > over against my house > From day-break to sun-rise > with emotions which an angel might share. > > The long slender bars of cloud > float like fishes in the sea of crimson light. > From the earth, as a shore, I look out into that silent sea. > I seem to partake its rapid transformations: > the active enchantment > reaches my dust, > and I dilate and conspire > with the morning wind. > > How does Nature deify > Us with a few and cheap elements! > Give me health and a day, > and I will make the pomp of emperors ridiculous. > > The dawn is my Assyria; > the sun-set and moon-rise my Paphos, > and unimaginable realms of faerie; > broad noon shall be my England of the senses and the understanding; > the night shall be my Germany of mystic philosophy and dreams. So, what do you think of RWE’s free verse poem? Seems to me like just prose with too many carriage returns. This is poetry just because the language is flowery and high-falutin’? Just because it’s ‘imaginative’? Just because it’s emotional. Give me a break. How is this a poem? Peace. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisCTP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@ChrisCTP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisCTP)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 1999, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/79 "1999-11-04T07:17:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sorry, but you simply are not going to tell me that “There was a young lady named Bright” is a poem and that the works of Sylvia Plath are not. Beautiful. Moriah, Sake, other Poetry Snobs: I chose my new sig line just for you. * * * “Excrement. That is what I think of J. Evans Pritchard, PhD.” --Robin Williams, Dead Poets Society Chris’ Homepage: [Domestic Bliss](http://www2.crosswinds.net/~domesticbliss/) ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 1999, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764/80 "1999-11-04T07:48:00Z")
> [@](#): > > {shrug} Hey, if you think W. Shakespeare and J. Keats sounds like M. Goose, that would certainly be your opinion. Don’t know anyone else who would share it, la belle dame sans merci. What part of “99 times out of 100” did you not comprehend? Sheesh! LEARN TO READ. * * * – O p a l C a t [www.opalcat.com](http://www.opalcat.com) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-you-think-youre-a-damn-poet-too/2764.md?page=5)