# So you're gay. Who gives a rats ass? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 24, 2000, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626 "2000-08-24T19:22:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/41 "2000-08-25T17:47:15Z")
I see how you could interpret my post that way, but it was not my intent. Hug and make up? ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/42 "2000-08-25T17:53:31Z")
My ex girlfriend (Remember Morgan, Matt?) always blasted me for wanting to be “normal”. It was a short relationship… anyway. All I want is to be “normal”. I want a house in the suburbs with two kids, some cats, a quiet girl to come home to, and a fricking white picket fence. (Okay, maybe not the fence.) I want stability, happiness, and a life without irrational fear. Having said that, I’m not going to blast any gay person for wanting other things. When it comes down to it, there is no normal, and quite frankly, who am I to judge another’s happiness? I think that Matt’s life is just as fabulous as mine, and that we’re both relatively happy with the choices we’ve made. I want what I want because what would make me happiest is to have quietgirl and I be treated just like everyone else. No, it’s not going to happen, but I’m not going to stop trying. About my list… keep in mind that all of this happened to me while I was in high school, and a high school is a very constricting environment. You simply cannot escape your classmates, especially in as small a place as I went to. Almost anywhere else, you have a lot more control over your surroundings and company. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/43 "2000-08-25T18:07:22Z")
Goboy: _hugz_ _snaps fingers_ We are fam-ah-LEE! _catches disapproving glace_ Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/44 "2000-08-25T18:08:13Z")
_thank you so very much, Duck Duck! Now, I’m going to share those chocolates with everyone here…😉_ True, but what I got from Goboy’s paragraph was that gays and straights aren’t really different-in that they’re totally different species. It’s more like, see, I’m NOT so different from you. Hell, some STRAIGHT people are flamboyant. I got from it that what he’s saying is, see, we’re all human! WE all have something in common, and we all are people. Not that it’s not okay to be different! ---
**Author:** ![beakerxf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc79bd/32.png) [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/45 "2000-08-25T18:21:15Z")
This conformity/non-conformity debate has got to be the stupidest issue amongst the gay community. To some gays I’m a conformist because I have a look that is “normal”. Whatever. I do not feel comfortable wearing dresses nor do I feel comfortable buzzing my hair and dying it blue. I’m a t-shirt, jean wearing, androgynous type of dyke. It’s what I’m comfortable with. People who ask me to be more radical in my appearnce are hypocrits. They are demanding that I conform with their non-conformity. That’s no different than the mainstream trying to assimilate me. I’m a human being, not a political statement. I’m not addressing anyone here since I know you’re all smart enough to appreciate differences. It’s just a pet peeve that I’ve been needing to vent for a while. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/46 "2000-08-25T18:21:25Z")
Thanks, Guinistasia, for your accurate precis of my post. that’s what I meant. Matt, Why on Earth would I disapprove of Sister Sledge? Where would gay men be without our divas? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/47 "2000-08-25T18:27:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **goboy** _ > > Where would gay men be without our divas? Thank God - I finally get the recognition I deserve. I’d like to thank all the little people I’ve slept with… 😉 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/48 "2000-08-25T18:37:55Z")
And another thing: not everyone who acts “gay” is. I worked with this one guy who had VERY feminine mannerisms, the limp wrists, the high, girly voice, the whole works. But he wasn’t gay. It turns out, his father died when he was only two, and he grew up with just his mom and three sisters. He was the only male in the house. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/49 "2000-08-25T19:10:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\*SaintZero and Lizard, you’re bigots. Wake up and smell the intolerance. you’re opposed to homosexuality on moral grounds? How can an orientation be moral or immoral? You might as well be morally opposed to being lefthanded or wiggling one’s > \*\* Why is it wrong to have morals? I believe it is wrong. Sorry if you think that makes me a bigot, but it’s my belief. I don’t _hate_ gays. I have gay friends, we all get along wonderfully. Some of them know my beliefs, and are cool with it. I hate gay bashing. I hate the fact that kids like andygirl and doobieous are under such pressure. I have never contributed to such an atmosphere. Now, I have these beliefs. They’re mine. I try to live by them. What is wrong with that? I’m not forcing **YOU** to, so why am I suddenly a bigot? ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/50 "2000-08-25T19:31:49Z")
**Saint** , tell us why you are morally opposed to homosexuality. Perhaps then we’ll have a better understanding of why you feel the way you do. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/51 "2000-08-25T19:33:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beakerxf \* > \*\*To some gays I’m a conformist because I have a look that is “normal”. Whatever. I do not feel comfortable wearing dresses nor do I feel comfortable buzzing my hair and dying it blue. I’m a t-shirt, jean wearing, androgynous type of dyke. It’s what I’m comfortable with. People who ask me to be more radical in my appearnce are hypocrits. They are demanding that I conform with their non-conformity. That’s no different than the mainstream trying to assimilate me. I’m a human being, not a political statement. > \*\* Uh, when was this? I was just trying to get goboy to realize the position he was seeming to take (for which he has repented) against gay freaks like myself, that’s all. The point was that the queer movement was supposed to let us be weird if we want. Obviously that entails letting you be ordinary if you want. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/52 "2000-08-25T19:37:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Why is it wrong to have morals? I believe it is wrong. Sorry if you think that makes me a bigot, but it’s my > belief. Why is homosexuality immoral? It’s an orientation, the same as being left-handed. You cannot choose to be gay any mnore than you can choose to be straight. > [@](#): > > I don’t _hate_ gays. I have gay friends, we all get along wonderfully. Some of them know my beliefs, and are cool with it. I hate gay bashing. Ah, yes, the old “Some of my best friends are…” bigot’s defense. > [@](#): > > I hate the fact that kids like andygirl and doobieous are under such pressure. I have never contributed to such an atmosphere. Yes, you have. By stating that homosexuality is immoral, making homosexuals immoral creatures who deserve punsihment. By not speaking up when someone tells antigay jokes in your presence(Two fags walk into a bar…) Twll me, why do you think homosexuality is immoral? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/53 "2000-08-25T20:07:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > I don’t _hate_ gays. I have gay friends, we all get along wonderfully. Some of them know my beliefs, and are cool with it. I hate gay bashing. > > Ah, yes, the old “Some of my best friends are…” bigot’s defense. > > Excuse me? bigots defense? Since when? gosh, if I would have known that your approval was required, I would not have bother even having friends! I’d simply move through life by myself. > > > [@](#): > > > > I hate the fact that kids like andygirl and doobieous are under such pressure. I have never contributed to such an atmosphere. > > Yes, you have. By stating that homosexuality is immoral, making homosexuals immoral creatures who deserve punsihment. > By not speaking up when someone tells antigay jokes in your presence(Two fags walk into a bar…) > > Twll me, why do you think homosexuality is immoral? \*\* I’ve never heard a joke like that. People knew I didn’t like jokes like that, and didn’t tell them around me. Find that hard to believe? Tough. Oh, and let me clear one more thing up. I have morals. One of them is that I think homosexuality is immoral. That’s my belief. I don’t recall needing **YOUR** permission to believe anything. I’m sorry you’ve had a rough life, and seem unable to believe that someone can hate a sin, but love people regardless. That is what I’m trying to do in life. Now, I’m going to set a rule for this. You want to talk about this further with me? Start a pit thread. I will not talk about this here any further. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/54 "2000-08-25T20:39:10Z")
So mote it be written, so mote it be done - your Pit thread is [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=36028). C’mon, Sister Mary Ignatious - explain it all for us. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/55 "2000-08-25T20:49:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ruffian \* > \*\*This may be the year 2000, but we have a long way to go when it comes to most types of tolerance, and especially in regards to the various forms and expressions of sexuality. How interesting that I’ve read this thread after watching _American Beauty_ (for the fourth time!)…the homophobia Col. Fitts displays is not in the slightest a rarity in this world. Colonel Fitts is too common. I’ve seen plenty of butch, ‘straight’ men decrying homosexuality… and they’ve hit on me too. It’s sad. Were it not for this societal pressure to be heterosexual, there would be a bit less hate in America. Did anyone notice the irony in American Beauty that the only functioning and healthy couple in the movie was the gay neighbours? You didn’t see them plotting murder, having affairs, or anything else negative. They were happy, polite, and considerate. And they were affectionate with each other. I thought that was refreshing. The moral issue… I’m sick of Xians and others getting up on their high moral horses and claiming there is something immoral about being gay. Enculturated hatred backed by a selective interpretation of a holy book is a weak person looking for substantiation for their own fears so they can take them out on another. In the movie the Celluloid Closet they pointed out that the problem a lot of people have with homosexuality is that when they think about it, they imagine themselves having gay sex. Their response often is: This disgusts me, because if I did it, I might like it, and I wouldn’t like anyone who did it. Flaunting. I wasn’t flaunting anything when I got gay bashed in 1997. I was walking home from a business meeting and some high school kids chose to harass me. I decided not to put up with it, fought, and got them some jail time and probation, as well as court ordered therapy for anger management. So, who gives a rat’s ass if I am gay? I don’t. It’s part of who I am. But too many other people care. Women at times pity me because they think I haven’t met the right girl. Xians pity me because they think I am going to hell. And the Republican Right likes to disseminate false information that we’re all pedos. What I think is sad about this is that we don’t give a rat’s ass, but society does. If they didn’t, it wouldn’t be a front page event when someone famous comes out of the closet - of their own free will or not. And there wouldn’t be such denials like Liberace if it wasn’t a persecuted issue in this country. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/56 "2000-08-25T21:48:18Z")
And the thing about pedophiles is that the majority are STRAIGHT MALES… _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2000, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/57 "2000-08-26T00:01:45Z")
Homophobia IS alive and well, especially here in Topeka Kansas, the home of Fred Phelps. I used to counter-picket against him and believe me it was harder to get people to come out(no pun intended) for these events than for other human rights issues. People thought that if they were a part of such things then others would assume they were gay. I’m straight, but I had a couple of coworkers that had the sheer, unmitigated gall to ask me about my orientation. What business is it of theirs? For anyone who thinks that gays are overly sensitive to percieved persecution, I would ask this. Where do you think Phelps and his family/church get all the money to make these trips to picket? It has to come from somewhere and in spite of their numbers I don’t think they make enough . Someone behind the scenes has to be helping, someone who looks just like you or me. I call them “undercover bigots”. It’s scary. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2000, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/58 "2000-08-26T00:39:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beakerxf \* > **This conformity/non-conformity debate has got to be the stupidest issue amongst the gay community.** I agree. I myself would probably be considered as trying to “fit in” and be normal. I wear the clothing styles I see on guys around campus (cargo pants/khakis, t-shirts with a button up shirt over left open), because that’s what _I_ like. I dont dye my hair different colors because that’s just not me. I dont have any feminine mannerisms, i dont do drag, wear skirts, or paint my fingernails, or whatever. Why? It’s not because i’m trying to “prove” that I can fit in or that i’m trying my hardest to be as far removed from the stereotypes or “expected” personality, it’s just me being myself. As I told David yesterday, take me as I am, because i’m not going to change to suit how you think I should be. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2000, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/59 "2000-08-26T00:42:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\*Andygirl and Doobieous, here’s a big hug for you guys. It’s a scary and brave thing to come out openly while you’re in high school where the pressure to conform is so intense. Luckily, in y’all’s case, heat and pressure made diamonds. Bless you both.if I shared a house and a life with a man for twenty years, we would be legally just friends, without even the option of recognition of common-law status like unmarried heterosexuals get? \*\* Well in my case it’s college (sorry). As odd as that is, being a relatively new school with under 3,000 students, you’re bound to have a higher percentage of bigoted assholes. It doesnt surprise me that much. The area I live is basically a retirement community, and fairly away from any big cities (SF is 2 hrs to the north). While we have a diversity in ethnicities, ignorance is still around. Monterey does have a gay pride parade each year, but still, I am cautious about things. I’d rather be safe than sorry. ---
**Author:** ![beakerxf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc79bd/32.png) [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2000, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626/60 "2000-08-26T00:45:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > > Uh, when was this? I was just trying to get goboy to realize the position he was seeming to take (for which he has repented) against gay freaks like myself, that’s all. The point was that the queer movement was supposed to let us be weird if we want. Obviously that entails letting you be ordinary if you want. Matt, get the chip off your shoulder and take a few moments before you knee jerk. Did you catch the part of my post that said this? > [@](#): > > I’m not addressing anyone here since I know you’re all smart enough to appreciate differences. It’s just a pet peeve that I’ve been needing to vent for a while. I have experienced pressure in RL from lesbian acquantances to try to be more radical and political in my appearance. Then I read various editorials in gay press about the whole conformist/non-conformist debate (especially around the time of the March On Washington) and it just all seems absurd. I like the idea that there’s room for everyone in the gay movement, and when I see attitudes contrary to that, it’s a major disappointment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youre-gay-who-gives-a-rats-ass/30626.md?page=4)