# So, you've been libeled on the Internet **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373 "2012-11-08T17:13:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/1 "2012-11-08T17:13:47Z")
My father, Prof. Bloom, has received the dubious honor of receiving an entry in a neo-Nazi Wiki site, which essentially copies whole-hog from Wikipedia and alters it with the usual rational-sounding filth. The site names itself Metapedia, and as such appears as trustworthy as Wikipedia (ahem), and is very high on the Google front page of hits for many topics. I told him Mazel Tov and that that’s the way the world works nowadays. Wikipedia goes apeshit about libel when anyone starts editing a “living-persons” entry. What are they warning about? ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/2 "2012-11-08T17:43:31Z")
I don’t think Wikipedia has any specific rules against editing a living person’s entry. However, they definitely care about people editing their OWN entry (and the anonymity of their process makes that a touchy thing) and they also have the usual rules about having any information you enter be properly referenced in a reputable source. As long as your sources are in-line, and you’re not posting with a screenname that’s obviously the person the article is about, then I think you’ll be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/3 "2012-11-08T17:50:45Z")
I am no expert on the subject and I’m sure there are others that can answer better. But I am also sure that I am not the only one who is confused as to what exactly your question is? Are you wondering about wikipedia’s policy or libel laws in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/4 "2012-11-08T17:51:28Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Wikipedia goes apeshit about libel when anyone starts editing a “living-persons” entry. What are they warning about? Because it’s a moderated forum (although it displays only user-created content), uncited material could be attributed to Wikipedia itself. Cited material cannot; as a general rule, accurate reporting of third party allegations are considered _per se_ nondefamatory. Thus, if you post something about a living person and it upsets them, and Wikipedia can’t point to a third party source, it may wind up getting sued. Dead people and their estates can’t sue for libel (unless it occurred while they were alive, and that only in some jurisdictions) so you don’t have to worry about defaming them. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/5 "2012-11-08T18:16:24Z")
First, as I undertand it, they limit Wikipedia entries to at least moderately famous/public persons. Wikipedia does not want to become facebook for the pretenderati. (Or the Who’s Who of obscure participants in Literature, Music, Broadway, or College faculties, AFAIK). Second, with some people (and even some obscure people, as your family situation indicates) the possibility is someone with an axe to grind, or just general troll poli, will make improper changes. (Think Colbert and Elephants…) IIRC - the rules usually works out to - once you take on the cross, you are then responsible for that burden. If Wikipedia moderates comments and edits, then it is now responsible if it fails to find and remove problem ones. Sites that do not moderate have less responsibility (but obviously in Wikipedia’s case, it would have much less accuracy). then tehre’s the kamikaze defence. You can sue, but all you do is draw attention and if the site is structured correctly, you spend a lot of money for no realistic gain; you win a domain anme that stops being a worthwhile destination, it’s easy to set up a new one, etc. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/6 "2012-11-08T18:26:19Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > However, they definitely care about people editing their OWN entry (and the anonymity of their process makes that a touchy thing) and they also have the usual rules about having any information you enter be properly referenced in a reputable source. That seems strange. I actually have a Wiki page (it’s a stub in their terminology). I didn’t create it, but if there were a factual error, say my birth year, they’d prevent me from editing it? I do log into Wiki to edit with a name (based on my name and place of work) that would obviously belong the subject of the page. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/7 "2012-11-08T19:46:17Z")
Wow, that metapedia is strange. When you visit the first site it looks a completely respectable thing. Who could argue with an “electronic encyclopedia about culture, art, science, philosophy and politics.”? And then you go to the english wiki of it. > [@](#): > > Featured Article: “Adolf Hitler the artist” > > In the News: > October > Italian patriots celebrate 90th anniversary of March on Rome to dismay of whiny liberal douches at Huffington Post. > Zionist shill Bernard Fellay expels Bishop Richard Williamson from the SSPX. > European Union wins 2012 Nobel Peace Prize for its contributions “to the advancement of peace and reconciliation, democracy and human rights in Europe.” > Crypto-Marxist homosexuality supporter, Conall McDevitt, applauds Orwellian anti-free speech arrest of National Front activists in South Belfast on so-called “racism” charges. > The red minister of defense in recent neo-communist governement of Croatia, Fred Matic by a new law interdicted any examination of post-WW2 massacres by Yugoslav communists. > September > The freemasons exposed in mainstream media as collecting the DNA of children. > Larry Brinkin, Jewish homosexual “rights” figure arrested again in San Francisco for child pornography > Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg of Norway has appointed a 29-year old Muslim woman, Hadia Tajik, as Norway’s Minister of Culture. > Paris Hilton criticises homosexuality, links it to AIDS. > Chief Rabbi Ovadia Yosef calls for extermination of Iranian people. > Vatican diplomat criticised Israeli state for “fostering intolerance of Christianity”. > International Jewry in screeching hysterics after Hungary stop taxpayer funded “Holocaust survivor” payments swindle. > August > Israelis off the hook in Rachel Corrie’s murder. > Family Research Council accuses Southern Poverty Law Center of sparking shooter’s hatred [1] > 20-year old Black in the United States named Samuel Dye attempts to rape his own grandmother. > July > James E. Holmes, a communistic member of Occupy Black Bloc and supporter of Barack Obama murders 12 and wounds 50 in Colorado shooting. > Zionist smear sheet The Sun molests 97 years old Hungarian gentleman fired by the Jewish criminal, Ephraim Zuroff. > The TD Bank in Canada closes the accounts of Canadian citizens of Iranian origin to placate Jewish instigated sanctions against their race. > Jewish “Holocaust” hustlers shake down the German people for another $300 million. > Paedophiles in alliance with the American Psychiatric Association demand “social acceptance” along the lines of the homosexual’s Sexual Bolshevik revolution. > June > Powers that be press [GoDaddy.com](http://GoDaddy.com) to remove truth websites Prothink and Zion Crime Factory. > Peter Sutherland of Goldman Sachs and the UN Global Forum on Migration and Development demands that the EU should “do its best to undermine the homogeneity” of its member states. > Jewish settlers attempt to start war with Palestinians: mosque desecrated > Israelis threatens the world with cyber warfare. > Jewish pogrom against Blacks in the Zionist State occurs. Abraham Foxman and Jews who push multiracialism onto the West silent as lambs. Hmmmm… Basically, OP, I don’t think there is anything you can do at all. Wikipedia is designed such that it can be forked, so this place using their article and then updating it with their own slant is permitted (so long as they adhere to the content liscence etc). So it basically comes down to a straightforward libel case one way or the other - the Wiki aspect is a red herring. That’s something you’ll need a lawyer to advise you on. By the way the page is visible in the UK, so feel free to use English libel law if you like. Contact a firm called Carter Ruck and see if they will represent you for free (I have no idea if they can do this) - they are very well known for extracting enormous damages and charging enormous fees. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/8 "2012-11-08T19:55:49Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > That seems strange. I actually have a Wiki page (it’s a stub in their terminology). I didn’t create it, but if there were a factual error, say my birth year, they’d prevent me from editing it? I do log into Wiki to edit with a name (based on my name and place of work) that would obviously belong the subject of the page. Raymond Chen is a fairly famous Microsoft blogger. He was getting peeved off that his Wikipedia entry was misleading, and he was getting people come to him at conferences and such complaining about something they read in Wikipedia that wasn’t true. So he logged into Wikipedia and tried to fix his own entry, but the edits were reverted because he’s not allowed to edit his own article. Even to fix incorrect information. Even to fix incorrect factual information with cites. Since he couldn’t police his own article and couldn’t control what other people added to it, he requested that Wikipedia delete it. Which they did. Now that was all a few years ago, but that’s when I started digging a bit into how Wikipedia handles such things. The policies might have changed. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/9 "2012-11-08T20:02:53Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > I don’t think Wikipedia has any specific rules against editing a living person’s entry. Rules against, no. > [@](#): > > However, they definitely care about people editing their OWN entry (and the anonymity of their process makes that a touchy thing) and they also have the usual rules about having any information you enter be properly referenced in a reputable source. Yes. An entire [Wikipedia guideline page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons). > [@](#): > > As long as your sources are in-line, and you’re not posting with a screenname that’s obviously the person the article is about, then I think you’ll be fine. Probably true. From [WP:Autobiography](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Autobiography): > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Writing an autobiography on Wikipedia is strongly discouraged, unless your writing has been approved by other editors in the community. Editing a biography about yourself should only be done in clear-cut cases. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/10 "2012-11-08T21:08:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Italian patriots celebrate 90th anniversary of March on Rome to dismay of whiny liberal douches at Huffington Post. Substitute “neo-fascists” for “patriots” and “clueless” for “liberal” and I don’t have a problem with that entry. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/11 "2012-11-08T21:38:59Z")
Regarding editing your own page: > **[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons | Dealing with articles about yourself](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BIOSELF#Dealing_with_articles_about_yourself)** > > Wikipedia has editorial policies that will often help to resolve your concern, as well as many users willing to help and a wide range of escalation processes. Very obvious errors can be fixed quickly, including by yourself. But beyond that, post suggestions on the article talk page (see Help:Talk pages), or place {{help me}} on your user talk page. You may also post an explanation of your concern on the biographies of living persons noticeboard and ask that uninvolved editors evaluate the article... > [@](#): > > Wikipedia has editorial policies that will often help to resolve your concern, as well as many users willing to help, and a wide range of escalation processes. Very obvious errors can be fixed quickly, including by yourself. But beyond that, post suggestions on the article talk page, or place {{adminhelp}} on your user talk page. Please bear in mind that Wikipedia is almost entirely operated by volunteers, and impolite behavior, even if entirely understandable, will often be less effective. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/12 "2012-11-08T21:49:42Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Wikipedia goes apeshit about libel when anyone starts editing a “living-persons” entry. What are they warning about? Do you mean the [Seigenthaler incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_biography_controversy)? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/13 "2012-11-09T00:08:17Z")
I didn’t know of it, and it’s interesting. I guess the OP started out primarily on what the hell is the status of Internet libel law, and I remembered editing Wiki, and needless to say it has thoughts on the matter that are pertinent. I flipped threw some of the references and deliberation pages of Admins, and it seemed very jungle-like. So is standard US and state law, I suppose, and I was more interested in that, at the moment. How Wikipedia, and Metapedia for that matter, internally administrate themselves is secondary. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-youve-been-libeled-on-the-internet/640373/14 "2012-11-09T02:53:33Z")
I can add a few points of interest: Metapedia is [hosted](http://whois.domaintools.com/metapedia.org) in the Netherlands by Godaddy. Dutch ISPs tend to be somewhat resistant to attempts to take down content, but I’m not sure if that extends to Godaddy. Under [US law](http://ilt.eff.org/index.php/Defamation_in_Cyberspace), the operator of an interactive web site such as a forum is not necessarily required to remove defamatory content that was posted by a user. In practice some web hosts will do so on receipt of a C&D or court order. Most will try to direct you to sue the site owner instead. Complaining to the site owner will get you nowhere. A C&D drafted by a lawyer and sent to the web host (Godaddy) might be effective, but I doubt it. A complaint not written by a lawyer will get you nowhere.