# So... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255 "2004-03-19T18:44:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/1 "2004-03-19T18:44:52Z")
What with no new Angel in the last two weeks, and having missed the last one aired (the tape in my VCR was not rewound - D’oh!), I was wondering… Who would win Astronauts or Cavemen? Ground rules: No weapons. It has to be a bareknuckle brawl. Sorry if this was covered in the “Shells” thread. I’m trying to avoid spoilers until my friend can loan me her tape. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/2 "2004-03-19T19:34:15Z")
Here I thought we’d be discussing the Peter Gabriel album. Did you have any particular groups of cavemen and astronauts in mind? Is there a specific fictional context? ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/3 "2004-03-19T19:46:54Z")
Right, are these cavemen like in the Ringo Starr movie, or are they more the _Quest for Fire_ type? And the astronauts. _The Right Stuff_ or _I Dream of Jeannie_? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/4 "2004-03-19T19:47:37Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Did you have any particular groups of cavemen and astronauts in mind? Is there a specific fictional context? This was the question Angel and Spike were having their huge 20 minute screaming match about. I debated over posting here or in IMHO, but I decided since it related to Angel… ---
**Author:** ![PastAllReason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@PastAllReason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastAllReason)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/5 "2004-03-19T20:49:10Z")
Cavemen! In Canada Angel is shown on Space. Thankfully they are continuing to show re-runs in the regularly scheduled time slot so I can still get my Spike fix. ---
**Author:** ![Sinungaling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sinungaling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinungaling)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/6 "2004-03-20T05:48:47Z")
It depends on what the terms of the match are. If the challenge is to survive in a total vacuum, then clearly spacesuits trump fur coverings any day. But, if the challenge is to not die while eating raw meat, then cavemen win the day. Also, what sort of cavemen are we talking about? Australopithecines were the size of children today, whereas Neandertals had larger muscles and brains than us, and were just bigger overall. And what about the astronauts? Who will be competing? Are we going to have the original Apollo astronauts going up against the cavemen? They’re kind of old, so they probably won’t put up much of a fight. Then again, the cavemen are already dead, whereas the astronauts are only mostly dead (i.e., retired), so maybe the flyboys get the win by default. I suppose we could dig up Alan Shepard’s corpse and bash it with a Neandertal skull and see which ends up looking uglier. ---
**Author:** ![Sinungaling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Sinungaling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinungaling)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/7 "2004-03-20T05:52:45Z")
PS Yes, I know Shepard wasn’t an Apollo astronaut. ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/8 "2004-03-20T06:48:46Z")
Your premise is flawed because, as we all know, Cavemen and astronauts are [the best of friends](http://www.tvparty.com/recits.html), so would never battle each other. 🙂 > [@Sinungaling](#): > > PS > Yes, I know Shepard wasn’t an Apollo astronaut. Sure he was. He commanded Apollo 14 and [played golf on the moon]([www.thespaceplace.com/history/](http://www.thespaceplace.com/history/) apollo/apollo14.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/9 "2004-03-20T15:01:49Z")
Okay, more ground rules. Cavemen = cro-magnum Astronauts = Apollo era astronauts And they’re battling each other for much the same reason that the kingons and the wookies, Captain Marvel and Superman, and Kirk and Picard battle each other… Because it’s fun to figure out who will win. ---
**Author:** ![Tallayan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Tallayan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tallayan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/10 "2004-03-20T18:18:52Z")
OK I’,m sorry but this is really no contest.The cavemen would have had a lifetime of malnutrition, disease, improperly set bones, all weaking them. They would be smaller and (I’d guess) weaker then apollo era astronauts, who were pretty much all millitary men. Not to mention that the astronauts would have better communication and teamwork, training in at least basic self defense, and just plain better brains, and it’s obvious that there’s no contest. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so/235255/11 "2004-03-20T20:06:52Z")
> [@Tallayan](#): > > …They would be smaller and (I’d guess) weaker then apollo era astronauts… the astronauts would have … just plain better brains, and it’s obvious that there’s no contest. I’ll challenge that: [Evfit.com is for sale - PerfectDomain.com](http://www.evfit.com/glossary.htm) > [@](#): > > Their skulls indicate larger brains - and, therefore, possibly greater intelligence - than present-day humans. Their skeletons are of an elegant (rather than stocky) frame but with tendon attachments indicating greater muscular strength than people today. I think we also have to consider the environment. Cocoa Beach, Fla., or the forest primeval?