I think it comes down to the US having been a very rich nation for the last hundred years. Baseball started in big cities and football & basketball in colleges. Both were able to afford decent fields, equipment, officials, uniforms etc.
While soccer is the ultimate poorman’s sport. Only one rule (no hands) and all you need is the ball.
Which is why, I think, that we Americans find it so boring. Its a woefully underdeveloped kid’s game, like dodgeball or tag.
This place is cool. You folks are great.
Actually, basketball started in community youth groups like the YMCA. They needed a winter sport for when it was too cold outside. Baseball was developed in rural areas and only moved into urban settings later on.
Baseball is very easy. You just need a stick and a ball. Or a ball substitute. I’ve played baseball in the back trails of Yosemite and Inyo with a stick we found along the trail and a rock or a used propane can for a ball. Very easy to do. We got the whole base camp below Whitney involved in an impromptu game one day. Good times.
I would have to disagree, on a professional level it can be quite complicated. I would venture to guess you have not played a lot of soccer? And i don’t mean that in a bad way by any means, just that the tactics are lost if you can’t recognize them. And take a look at these videos if you think it lacks the potential skill value. Just as you said “One rule, no hands” I mean come on, what a great rule!! We use our hands ALL the time, the trick is not to use them!!
These videos show skill; feats to aspire to as a player.
http://www.nikesoccer.com/tape/moves/nutmeg.html
http://www.nikesoccer.com/tape/moves/stepover.html
http://www.nikesoccer.com/tape/moves/roof.html
I don’t get it, either. Soccer is constant action, even if no goals are scored. Baseball: now THAT bores me to tears. Why would I want to wtch a bunch of guys scratch their crotches and spit tobacco juice? Of course, I’m not much for watching team sports, anyway. And I grew up in a town where the H.S. soccer teams kicked butt; both boys’ and girls’ teams regularly made the state finals.
My friends and I used to play pickup soccer games a couple of nights a week in the park, for years after college; one of my friends still coordinates an intramural league at his job. Most of us (definitely including myself in this category) weren’t very good, but we still had fun with just a ball and a couple of trash cans for goalposts. Sadly, due to some surgically installed ankle hardware, my soccer career is over now.
I do think the time for soccer will come in the U.S.; we just aren’t there yet. The lack of TV coverage exept on foreign-language stations probably has something to do with that. Unless you have cable, in Chicago you need to watch TV soccer in Spanish.
Eh, I don’t think soccer will ever advance further than the popularity of ice hockey.
As for why I find soccer boring, it’s because I can often see the plays developing ahead of time. For example, the other day I was watching Man U play whoever they were playing, and I watched a player streak down the side of the pitch towards the goal with the ball. Seemingly an exciting play, except I could see the defender angling towards him and closing and I knew that the guy would get down almost to the end of the pitch, be cut off, tail around pass the ball back to the backfield. And that’s exactly what happened. Frankly, there’s not enough attacking for my tastes. Plus, I’m not a big fan of the offside rule. If they got rid of that, I think I would enjoy soccer much more as there would be more deep passes and breakaways.
I did find the end of the Portugal-South Korea game in the last World Cup very exciting.
I think one of the factors in soccer unpopularity (in the US) is that it doesnt have the same number of pauses that other popular American sports do. It makes for bad business cause at the stadium you sell less beer and snacks that way and on TV it makes for a smaller number of advertisements that can be fitted in. I f.ex. could probably enjoy American Football were it not for the semi constant state of inactivity.
I know a few ppl who have played in the US, via scholarships. They all complain that American players are often good athletes, have nice handling and passing skills but lack understanding of the game. Positioning is exceptionally bad for Americans and sometimes reminds me of the African teams at times. Nigeria and Cameroon come to mind, as both teams have flare and oodles of skill but crappy positioning and overall lack of understanding of the game. Both teams have made great strides in the game and Nigerian even became Olympic champion once. Still most of the championships are won by the more methological teams such as Brazil and Germany where skillfull players are set aside for old warhorses every time.
Still, the American team could not find a better time to rise to stardom. The European teams have been faltering for some time now. Germany is going through a crippling generationchange as their old warhorses are breaking 40, no one really knows what the hell happened to France (which is also plagued by disinterest in the sport) and the Netherlands, Italy’s old heavily defensive football isnt working for them anymore, England is plagued by lack of talent and Spain is cursed (yes really). Brazil have been winning with pretty substandard teams playing boring football. The US couldnt pick a better time.
For those interested, the following is a decent book that examines the differences in sports cultures between Europe and the US. It’s primary focus is why soccer (football) is popular around the world and not so popular in the US:
“Offside: Soccer and American Exceptionalism” by Andrei S. Markovits and Steven L. Hellerman.
I’m going make a prediction - within the next 20 years, soccer in the United States will grow in popularity to the point where it will be in the 3rd or 4th most popular sport. MLS will have expanded considerably and will probably have adopted a similar system that currently exists in Europe (various levels with relegation). There will also be a growing influx of American players into the major leagues of Europe and elsewhere.
I disagree, eponymous. MLS will likely have expanded considerably, maybe doubling in size to twenty teams. Maybe even thirty. Since the league is currently run by owners who have more experience with the league setups of basketball, football, baseball, etc., it’s far more likely MLS will develop in that. Relegation will probably not occur.
Soccer may well become the 3rd or 4th most popular sport, but it’s already about 5th, so that’s not too much of a stretch. American players are also already increasing into the European leagues and that will likely continue. Unfortunately, our top athletes will likely continue to play football, basketball and baseball.
Just look at Lance Armstrong?
15 years ago the Tour de France was capable of about 1.5% market awareness within the USA - tops. And that was even after Greg Lemond had won a tour.
Now, you see Lance Armstrong’s face across US Television left right and centre. I’m sure that we’ll be seeing a truckload of American cycling monsters in 10 years from now as a result.
All it will take is a few American players to start getting talked about in the English Premier League the same way David Beckham gets fawned over.
When that starts to happen, all of a sudden you’ll find that market awareness within the USA for the game will start to go through the roof.
The same thing happened down here in Australia. We have players like Harry Kewell and Mark Viduka now who are real stars in the game. As a result, we get to see English Premier League games live now. The game in Europe gets huge coverage down here these days - and the local competition is a breeding ground for more future stars.
We still love our local sports such as Rugby Union, Rugby League, and Australian Football - but we also love seeing Aussies do well in soccer overseas. That’s the parallel I predict you’ll see in the USA.
For those of you who like football (soccer) quotes, go to:
www.philosophyfootball.com
In terms of philosophical and memorable quotes (some not exactly truly football quotes), football has it hands down over baseball, Giamatti and George Will’s intellectual pretensions notwithstanding…
Neurotik,
As a Spaniard and life-long footy-lover, I can confidently tell you that’s there’s hardly anything ‘predictable’ about out game. As sidenote, I was Stateside for over ten years and I never got over my withdrawl symtoms. Not getting my weekly Real Madrid fix was almost too painful to bear. Fortunately, those days are behind me.
Now getting back to the ‘predictabilty’ thing, first, the obvious. If that were so, defenders would be practicably invincible. Just wait for the play to ‘predictably’ develop, hold their position, and voila! - goals would only come from positional mistakes. Alas, that is far from the case, for practicably at every level of the game, players develop moves that can leave the best defender on his/her butt. Obviously, as you go up the ranks, the skill-level greatly increases on both ends. And once you get to the very top – the realm of the Zidanes, Figos, Ronaldos, Etoos, Rivaldos, Tottis, Owens, Del Pieros, Van Nilsteroys, Giggs and Rauls, to name but a few – unpredictabilty is the name of the game. Hardly a match goes by when you don’t see one of them pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat. ZZ in particular, is sheer poetry in motion.
Not having watched the match and play you’re describing, I can’t comment on the particular play you describe. But I can easily make a mental picture of it and think of any number of ways the play could have ensued beyond the “predictable” back pass.
Lastly, having suffered through the drought myself, I think the lack of TV coverage certainly hampers the popularity of the game in the US. And no, I am not talking about watching the MLS, but any of the top three (La Liga, Calcio, Premiership) leagues in Europe. IMO, you simply need a top-shelf product like that to hook new fans in, and I am afraid, for now anyway, the MLS simply doesn’t cut it.
In a reverse situation, and to give you a similar example, much of the world-wide popularity of basketball is due to the ubiquitous NBA coverage. It is only rivaled by, and bettered, yep, you guessed it, footy itself. Outside the USA itself of course. The “other” last frontier for soccer is being explored as we speak. What with Asia as a whole, and China in particular (where Real Madrid, and our shining new boy-toy, Becks, are doing the pre-season) increasingly going footy-mad.
Of course, as others have said, culture obviously plays a big factor as well. And with America’s Big Three so firmly entrenched, footy has a doubly hard road to hoe. But I do think it starts with TV.
But hey! bottom line. We don’t have to agree, or even defend as I’ve done here, our sport of choice. Choice, after all, being the key word.
I still think it’s your loss though 
Hala Madrid!
*Originally posted by Neurotik *
True, todays’ owners are more familiar with the league setup of the other professional sports. But once the current crop have moved on and those players/coaches currently playing have moved into management/ownership positions, I’m betting there will be a move to have a similar league structure (relegation) found elesewhere. Heck, they even talked about it on Fox Sky Sports as a possibility for the future. Short term, no - you’re correct. Long term - a strong possibility.
Our top athletes will still play football and basketball? Yes, I agree. Baseball? Here’s where I think there will be a major change. Soccer will eventual eclipse baseball in popularity, both in terms of atheletes playing/people following it as a major sport. While I don’t relish the thought of MLB in decline, I feel that there’s been enough damage done to allow for another sport (soccer) to bypass it.
The interesting thing is that most people with the physique to play pro US football or basketball aren’t going to be good footballers/soccer players. Not a lot of world-class footballers over 2 m (6’6") or 100 kg (220 lbs.) (look at Maradona or Pele – not big guys, to say the least) So US can still develop athletes in footy without syphoning off from those sports.
As long as you can train them only to turn left, you’re onto a winner.
I strongly disagree. What benefit would there be to relegation? Relegation is something very unique to European soccer and I do not think it can be duplicated on the professional level. Relegation requires huge numbers of franchises. Suppose MLS expands to 30 teams in the US within the next 20 years, which is about what the other leagues have. What financial incentive would half of those teams have to voluntarily go and play in what would essentially be a minor league? Or suppose they just expand and create another 30 teams that start out in a minor league. Why would any of the owners agree to take the risk of their moving down and losing revenues? I just don’t see it happening.
**
Extremely doubtful. Soccer may well eclipse baseball in popularity, but it won’t be within the next 20-30 years. Especially if baseball begins moving towards a World Cup, which is a distinct possibility. Baseball is currently the second most popular sport in the US and it has a huge cultural place in America. It may falter a little bit, but it isn’t going away.
I did a short stint as a security guard / safety man in an indoor ‘amateur’ soccer arena, and report the following.
Professional soccer (please God, stop calling it football) does not do justice to the game. On the idiot box, it’s an hour plus of running. With a ball. That no one picks up. On the field, it’s serious interpersonal drama, with all the intensity of a wind-driven wildfire.
Soccer isn’t an American game. We didn’t come up with it, we can’t modify it, therefore, on the whole, we likely wont participate in watching it.
We’ve seen how maniacal soccer fans can be. Frankly, we’d rather not be caught up in a stampede that kills hundreds, around a game, at least not in the stadium. We’re gonna take it out on the street and do some lootin, by god, cause the twitville ninnies won the booby prize.
Simply? The scores don’t go high enough for our tastes. If we’re going to watch a low scoring game, it’s damn well gonna be one we invented and played as children.
The 1970s North American Soccer League was arguably better promoted than modern MLS, but it collapsed, despite boasting Pele (a better face to promote the game, you couldn’t ask for). The problems were the same as the ones holding MLS and US international football (yes, buttonjockey, football… soccer is a corruption of “association”, as in “association football”, and not really any more the true name, than say, gridiron is for American football) now- the refusal to adopt a farm system like the one in place virtually everywhere else in the world. Somebody suggested that the idea of multi-tiered leagues with relegation and promotion was purely a European idea, but almost all of South America and the more successful Asian nations use the same setup.
In America, players come out of college; in the rest of the world, they come out of professional team youth squads, for the most part, and it works. The emphasis on recruitment straight out of college may work for American football, basketball, and baseball, but apart from anything else it vastly limits a team’s pool of available international talent, and eliminates late developers (or the less academically inclined). David Beckham, as I’m sure you are all aware, or soon will be, given the number of times I’ve seen him on my TV this week, is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
On a slightly unrelated note, YourOldBuddy suggested that Brazil wins because their sides are composed of “old warhorses” rather than skilful players- so I guess all we’ve heard about Romario, Ronaldo, Edmilson, Denilson, Roberto Carlos, et al. was incorrect and Real, Barca, and Inter have paid several hundred million dollars for the group because they’re old warhorses…
Anyway, the point I was really making was that Yeovil Town will win the FA Cup (and they will) before MLS makes a real impact without major changes.
*Originally posted by Neurotik *
Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. I do not think that the MLS will adopt lock, stock, and barrel the systems found in most leagues around the world (relegation), but it will be similar. Relegation is NOT unique to European soccer - most leagues around the world have similar relegation systems. MLS is one of only a handful that does not have such a system.
The benefit of a relegation system would probably the same as that for the other countries who have such a system - it promotes competitiveness.
A relegation system wouldn’t require a huge number of franchises - MLS currently has 10. There is talk of expanding the number to 12 in the next couple of years.
The MLS could, if it chose to, incorporate the teams from the A-League (or other minor soccer teams/leagues, if any) as lower division teams.
The current teams in the MLS (however many that ends up to be - say 16 teams) would be classified as the premeir or first division. Those newly added teams from the A-league or wherever would start out as lower division teams (say 12 teams). They would reach permier/first division status just like any other team in a relegation system - they get promoted.
In this system, the A-League owners (still a minor league) now have some incentive to get better. If they do well, they get promoted. If not, they stay put. But it also forces the (now) premier/first division teams to remain competitive. If they don’t, then the worst get demoted.
There are numerous ways that the system can be structured so as to provide financial incentive for minor league teams. For example, those that win promotion get the first draft pick (if that is still in place). Or allow the lower league teams to have more foreign players on their rosters (currently MLS teams are limited in the number of players from foreign countries). Or allow lower league teams to carry more players on their rosters than premier/first division clubs. Or if a premier/first division team wants a player from the lower division, then it needs to pay them X amount of dollars in compensation. If that player later goes to another league (say in Europe), then a % of the transfer fee would be funneled back to the lower division team (this is what is currently done in other leagues throughout the world under FIFA guidelines).
True, baseball won’t go away, but it is faltering (that is, MLB). It has already been eclipsed by football. With the changing demographics in the US (higher % of Asians and Hispanics), the decline of youth baseball in the inner cities, labor/management issues, income/revenue disparity between clubs, declining TV viewership, etc. MLB baseball needs to start adressing some major issues if it wants to maintain it’s status as #2.
Soccer will never pass baseball in this country. Nor football (gridiron).
But Soccer is growing and will continue to grow. So many kids play nowadays that ignorance of the game won’t be much of a factor in 20 year or so. And as long as the MLS exists & grows, there’s a potential career path for the kids playing now.
College is not the only route to professional soccer any more (see Landon Donovan, John O’Brien & Damarcus Beasley). And college does produce some damn good players as it is. And as soccer grows and they have to compete with the professionals for players, the quality of player development will get better & better in the colleges.
Despite some problems (I have some real problems with its credibility… having one owner own six teams is a big no-no), the MLS is pretty healthy & well funded. You don’t build stadia unless you expect to be around for a long time.
Soccer sucks as a televised sport unless you’re knowledgeable about the game. (I suspect HDTV will help this). I urge soccer newbies to actually attend a match…preferably with someone passionate & knowledgeable. World Cup qualifying starts soon, go check out one of those games. Go early & tailgate with Sam’s Army or a similar group of fans. Or go watch Brazil play; their fans are great. Same with Holland.
Promotion/relegation will never happen here. This is unfortunate; it’s a great system.