# Social Justice Warriors **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207 "2017-03-02T15:59:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/61 "2017-03-03T02:16:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I suggested some ways in which this difference would manifest itself in the post quoted in the OP. See in particular the fourth and fifth paragraphs. I read the OP which is why I was asking for clarification. In the OP you wrote how some people join causes for base motives. I agree that people like that might exist. A person might join a movement because he wants to see his picture in the paper to to impress girls or to build up a resume for a future political career and not because he actually believes in the cause. But then in a later post, you said that some of these people actually do think they believe in the cause. So I asked my question to clarify what it was you were saying. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/62 "2017-03-03T14:05:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I read the OP which is why I was asking for clarification. In the OP you wrote how some people join causes for base motives. I agree that people like that might exist. A person might join a movement because he wants to see his picture in the paper to to impress girls or to build up a resume for a future political career and not because he actually believes in the cause. > > But then in a later post, you said that some of these people actually do think they believe in the cause. So I asked my question to clarify what it was you were saying. But in the OP I didn’t just say “for base motives” (or similar), such that I might have been referring to reasons such as you gave. What I said was “_someone who needs to feel that he is nobly battling the Forces of Evil […] a guy who is always looking for an injustice to fight, so he can get that righteous glow_”. And in post #29 (responding to you), I referred to “_emotional/psychological origins of this sort_”. Similarly, the study I quoted suggested the possibility that “_moral outrage at third-party transgressions is sometimes a means of reducing guilt over one’s own moral failings and restoring a moral identity_”. The whole point of this type of mental process is that a person feels good about himself by convincing himself that he’s engaged in this great moral endeavor. If the person didn’t sincerely believe in what he was doing, it wouldn’t work at all in this manner. So the fact that a person is sincere about his beliefs on a conscious level is not an indication that he’s not ultimately driven by psychological forces of the types described. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/63 "2017-03-03T16:44:40Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The whole point of this type of mental process is that a person feels good about himself by convincing himself that he’s engaged in this great moral endeavor. If the person didn’t sincerely believe in what he was doing, it wouldn’t work at all in this manner. So the fact that a person is sincere about his beliefs on a conscious level is not an indication that he’s not ultimately driven by psychological forces of the types described. Wouldn’t that cover any Mormon missionary who derives personal satisfaction from the work? Are missionaries also Social Justice Warriors? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/64 "2017-03-03T16:47:33Z")
The same phenomenon would also apply to religious feelings. I’ve said this repeatedly, both in the OP and subsequently. I don’t know that the term “Social Justice Warriors” would apply, as religion is not entirely about social justice. But it’s the same issue. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/65 "2017-03-03T16:50:38Z")
I’m a Social Justice Warrior because I keep seeing assholes treating other people, usually minorities of some kind, poorly and unfairly. I’d rather not have to fight this fight but we keep producing bigoted assholes and the only other choice is to let them keep doing the things they do. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/66 "2017-03-03T17:15:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The same phenomenon would also apply to religious feelings. I’ve said this repeatedly, both in the OP and subsequently. > > I don’t know that the term “Social Justice Warriors” would apply, as religion is not entirely about social justice. But it’s the same issue. Is protesting abortion (and calling for law restricting abortion) an issue of social justice? As best I can tell, anyone calling for or working toward changes in society could be a social justice warrior, but the capital letters are reserved for people who do so in a manner or for causes that you personally don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/67 "2017-03-03T20:49:48Z")
I have often wondered just who the heck are these 'social justice warriors"? I mean in my circle of acquaintances for work, church, neighbors, friends I’ve never known anyone who has the time, desire, or attitude to do something crazy like try to block traffic, set things on fire, take their clothes off, or get into a fight with police over some issue [like these people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UngiV2mBSE). Now I know 2 people who who part of the recent marches against Trump but they didnt go crazy. Just who are these people? Where do they have employment? Who are their friends and family? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/68 "2017-03-03T21:11:45Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I have often wondered just who the heck are these 'social justice warriors"? > > … > > Just who are these people? > Where do they have employment? > Who are their friends and family? 1. Trouble makers, obviously. 2. They’re usually unemployed, living large off your hard earned tax dollars. 3. Hippies and welfare queens. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/69 "2017-03-03T21:20:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I have often wondered just who the heck are these 'social justice warriors"? > > I mean in my circle of acquaintances for work, church, neighbors, friends I’ve never known anyone who has the time, desire, or attitude to do something crazy like try to block traffic, set things on fire, take their clothes off, or get into a fight with police over some issue [like these people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UngiV2mBSE). Now I know 2 people who who part of the recent marches against Trump but they didnt go crazy. > > Just who are these people? > Where do they have employment? > Who are their friends and family? A lot are college students, because at that time they aren’t bound to a work employment schedule yet, and also are surrounded by a lot of like-minded peers. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/70 "2017-03-04T04:19:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > A lot are college students, because at that time they aren’t bound to a work employment schedule yet, and also are surrounded by a lot of like-minded peers. Probably because if you have a job and responsibilities you cant be having to tell your boss you cant come to work for a week because your in jail. Plus a person often has to declare any brushes with the law when applying for employment. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/71 "2017-03-04T05:47:32Z")
I don’t understand the connection between the definition of a SJW and the study results. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/72 "2017-03-06T06:49:13Z")
In many ways, I think being a Social Justice Warrior is like being a hipster - people who clearly are one in the eyes of other observers will insist they aren’t, because of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/73 "2017-03-06T15:13:10Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > In many ways, I think being a Social Justice Warrior is like being a hipster - people who clearly are one in the eyes of other observers will insist they aren’t, because of reasons. Similarly, one can declare someone else to be a hipster/SJW and need not give any specific reasons beyond _feeling_ that they are one, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/74 "2017-03-07T05:38:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Similarly, one can declare someone else to be a hipster/SJW and need not give any specific reasons beyond _feeling_ that they are one, it seems. I’m not 100% sure about that - there are definitely mannerism/behaviours/styles/views for those groups which an outside observer can identify. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/75 "2017-03-07T05:52:29Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m not 100% sure about that - there are definitely mannerism/behaviours/styles/views for those groups which an outside observer can identify. That doesn’t contradict what I said. Sure, there are indeed obvious examples of any subculture. There are also many, many cases that exist only in the eye of the beholder and if one is looking for a way to dismiss ideas rather than individuals, the labels are handy. -I don’t like “ethnic” food, so I call anyone who likes “fusion” restaurants a hipster. -I don’t like women/gays/transgenders, so I call anyone who supports equal treatment under the law a Social Justice Warrior. It’s a convenient tool for the intellectually lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/76 "2017-03-07T07:49:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That doesn’t contradict what I said. Sure, there are indeed obvious examples of any subculture. There are also many, many cases that exist only in the eye of the beholder and if one is looking for a way to dismiss ideas rather than individuals, the labels are handy. > > -I don’t like “ethnic” food, so I call anyone who likes “fusion” restaurants a hipster. > -I don’t like women/gays/transgenders, so I call anyone who supports equal treatment under the law a Social Justice Warrior. > > It’s a convenient tool for the intellectually lazy. I’m not disagreeing the terms are misused, but I also think they’re valid in their own right. You don’t have to dislike fusion restaurants because they have ethnic food - I love “ethnic” food but I’m not a huge fan of fusion restaurants, largely because they’re very expensive with small portions IME. That seems to be something which makes them attractive to hipsters, too. 😛 And as for your second point - I don’t think most people this side of the middle ages are seriously saying gays/trangenders/minorities/women should receive different treatment under the law. What people are concerned about are those pushing for those folks to have what is perceived as “extra” privileges under social constructs rather than legally, if that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/77 "2017-03-07T19:05:00Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m not disagreeing the terms are misused, but I also think they’re valid in their own right. For “Social Justice Warrior”, I gather the misuses likely outnumber any “valid” applications. At the height of Gamergate, picture wandering into a 4Chan thread and saying something as tepid as “Um, maybe it’s not such a great idea to post someone’s home address and threaten to rape and murder them.” What were the odds of you escaping an SJW label? Would they change if you were using an feminine-sounding username? > [@](#): > > And as for your second point - I don’t think most people this side of the middle ages are seriously saying gays/trangenders/minorities/women should receive different treatment under the law. What people are concerned about are those pushing for those folks to have what is perceived as “extra” privileges under social constructs rather than legally, if that makes sense. It doesn’t. The “extra” privileges supposedly sought are often just the same privileges the majority enjoys. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/78 "2017-03-07T21:52:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > For “Social Justice Warrior”, I gather the misuses likely outnumber any “valid” applications. At the height of Gamergate, picture wandering into a 4Chan thread and saying something as tepid as “Um, maybe it’s not such a great idea to post someone’s home address and threaten to rape and murder them.” What were the odds of you escaping an SJW label? Would they change if you were using an feminine-sounding username? 4Chan is hardly representative of society, though. And that’s without getting into my other theory that lots of people say stuff online they’d never say or act on IRL - from all sides of the socio-political spectrum. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t. The “extra” privileges supposedly sought are often just the same privileges the majority enjoys. Not necessarily, but it’s hard to get into a discussion of that without spectacularly hijacking the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/79 "2017-03-07T22:52:29Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > 4Chan is hardly representative of society, though. It’s representative of the part of society that is fond of using “SJW” as an insult, though. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/80 "2017-03-08T05:32:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s representative of the part of society that is fond of using “SJW” as an insult, though. FWIW I don’t know anyone who frequents 4Chan but I do know a lot of people (myself included) who’d employ SJW as a disparaging term. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207.md?page=5)