# Social Justice Warriors **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 2, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207 "2017-03-02T15:59:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/121 "2017-03-09T16:25:32Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I see one party meeting **Martini** ’s criteria here, and it _isn’t_ Adria Richards. All she did was ask that a conference enforce their code of conduct; the idea that she is somehow “responsible” for getting those men fired is _ludicrous_, she didn’t want that either. Rather, it was the mean-spirited trolls who thought they found an Ess Jay Dubya and decided the best way to proceed was by threatening her workplace with illegal and damaging actions if they didn’t fire her. That’s actually an interesting story, but from looking around a bit it does not appear that she was fired based on the DDOS threats (which were apparently carried out, briefly). Rather, she was fired was because she had alienated a good part of the community that her job was to sell to. Apparently, she’s something of a drama queen with a history of this type of thing. See for example [this](https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/). ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/122 "2017-03-09T16:48:35Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The criterion was someone getting fired for one sexist joke. My example fits that absolutely, positively 100%. The other circumstances surrounding it are absolutely irrelevant. Assuming that was why he was fired, sure. Sorry, lost the context of the post. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/123 "2017-03-09T17:27:10Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The criterion was someone getting fired for one sexist joke. My example fits that absolutely, positively 100%. The other circumstances surrounding it are absolutely irrelevant. Removing **Rittersport’s** post from the thread and reading a single sentence from it in isolation, sure. But his post should be read as a paraphrase of what **Martini** was claiming happened, and the rest of his post colors the sentence you extracted. I guess you can claim a victory, but not one connected to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/124 "2017-03-09T17:36:31Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s not problematic to care, it’s problematic to expect others to care Raising awareness about a cause and garnering public sympathy and support is activism 101. Do you consider Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, et al to be “SJWs”? > [@](#): > > and to scold or punish them for not having opinions you don’t like. What actions do you consider to constitute “punishment”. Some real-life examples might be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/125 "2017-03-09T17:58:57Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Removing **Rittersport’s** post from the thread and reading a single sentence from it in isolation, sure. But his post should be read as a paraphrase of what **Martini** was claiming happened, and the rest of his post colors the sentence you extracted. I disagree. Martini wasn’t claiming that the specific example of harm that he conjured up had happened. It was an example. Ritter rejected that based on a general statement that “_people don’t get fired for making a sexist joke_”, and said “_Can you cite an example of this?_” An example was then provided, which showed that people do indeed get fired for making sexist jokes, and this makes Martini’s example plausible. So in the context of this thread, the example was completely on target. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/126 "2017-03-09T18:05:05Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Looks like a great example, but people don’t get fired for making a sexist joke. Can you cite an example of this? It’s like a cartoon version of a feminist, with her high-fiving people for getting someone fired, while celebrating a blow against an oppressor. This doesn’t happen in real life. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Martini wasn’t claiming that the specific example of harm that he conjured up had happened. It was an example. Ritter rejected that based on a general statement that “_people don’t get fired for making a sexist joke_”, and said “_Can you cite an example of this?_” Read the full paragraph: “this” includes more than just getting fired for making a sexist joke. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/127 "2017-03-09T18:07:09Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > A good example would be a woman takes exception to a man making a sexist (but non-threatening) joke and complains to his employer, while also making a big song and dance about it on social media. Man gets fired; he (and his family) have suffered actual and serious harm while the original victim has suffered hurt feelings but then gets to go around metaphorically high-fiving all her friends because she’s struck a blow against an “Oppressor” or whatever. The destruction of the man’s livelihood far, _far_ outweighs any actual harm the woman might have suffered from hearing a sexist joke, IMHO. Sounds like the man is facing the consequences of his actions. I thought conservatives were all gung-ho about that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/128 "2017-03-09T18:32:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Read the full paragraph: “this” includes more than just getting fired for making a sexist joke. I disagree with this interpretation. “This” refers to the sentence that preceded it denying that such things happen, not to the subsequent sentence about what it sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/129 "2017-03-09T18:47:55Z")
[Here](http://gizmodo.com/singing-a-song-about-a-rapist-is-not-a-thing-that-hap-1786756825) is another computer industry example where someone tried really, really hard to get people fired over something even milder than a dongle joke. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/130 "2017-03-09T18:49:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I disagree with this interpretation. “This” refers to the sentence that preceded it denying that such things happen, not to the subsequent sentence about what it sounds like. ok ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/131 "2017-03-09T23:33:34Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Here](http://gizmodo.com/singing-a-song-about-a-rapist-is-not-a-thing-that-hap-1786756825) is another computer industry example where someone tried really, really hard to get people fired over something even milder than a dongle joke. That was pretty bad, I agree. But, you know something? The reason why these cases get known is because they are unusual. So, I’ll amend my statement – practically no one gets fired for telling a joke. And, in that case, no one did, happily. If everything played out as described in that article, I think we may have found an SJW in the wild. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/132 "2017-03-10T00:02:59Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > If everything played out as described in that article, I think we may have found an SJW in the wild. Well, as for SJWs in the wild, there is [this](https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/09/02/sjw-harasses-lyft-driver-over-his-hula-doll-gets-left-on-side-of-road/) one (who got someone fired, but he was rehired when the video hit the net.) And [this](https://heatst.com/culture-wars/blm-activist-accuses-man-of-sexual-harassment-for-telling-her-his-name-is-hugh-mungus/) one who harassed poor Hugh Mungus (she wasn’t trying to get him fired–just arrested.) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/133 "2017-03-10T01:01:07Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Well, as for SJWs in the wild, there is [this](https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/09/02/sjw-harasses-lyft-driver-over-his-hula-doll-gets-left-on-side-of-road/) one (who got someone fired, but he was rehired when the video hit the net.) And [this](https://heatst.com/culture-wars/blm-activist-accuses-man-of-sexual-harassment-for-telling-her-his-name-is-hugh-mungus/) one who harassed poor Hugh Mungus (she wasn’t trying to get him fired–just arrested.) Jesus, the woman in the first video is completely insane. Do a google search on her. She is seriously not OK. Her problems go way beyond being an “SJW” though that is the ideology she is using to express her psychosis. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/134 "2017-03-10T01:01:12Z")
Here’s an example of someone getting a man fired for calling her a mean name: [http://www.smh.com.au/national/hotel-worker-michael-nolan-sacked-over-facebook-post-to-clementine-ford-20151130-glc1y4.html](http://www.smh.com.au/national/hotel-worker-michael-nolan-sacked-over-facebook-post-to-clementine-ford-20151130-glc1y4.html) I’m not defending the guy - calling someone a “slut” in a bad way is not a nice thing to do and it’s not a “joke”, but it’s hardly worthy of being fired for IMHO. Especially when the person being called a mean name is a nationally known writer who regularly gets called infinitely worse things - and has also been known to post/write some pretty inflammatory things herself, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/135 "2017-03-10T01:10:04Z")
As a conservative Rutgers college student, there are some very liberal people on this campus, but for the most part they’re respectful about their beliefs and aren’t abrasive about their beliefs and try to yell their way to win an argument. In my opinion, liberals who peacefully protest at conservative events but allow their speaker to have a say are not anarchists or social justice warriors (although I disagree with their political opinions, but respectfully). It’s the type of people such as the leftist violent protestors at Middlebury when Professor Charles Murray spoke (or, rather, was preventing from speaking) who then attacked him when he walked back and later sent one of their own professors to the hospital with a neck brace who are Social Justice warriors, as well as hypocrites. I don’t know why they don’t just debate their political opponents, instead of violently lashing out at them. There really is nothing bad about having an intellectual debate with your opponents and there’s no need to be violent. Wish they could see that. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/136 "2017-03-10T01:14:58Z")
I don’t understand what these links are supposed to be about. All these guys behaved poorly and their lives became difficult because of it. Maybe if they were better people they could enjoy their lives more. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/137 "2017-03-10T01:20:48Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I don’t understand what these links are supposed to be about. All these guys behaved poorly and their lives became difficult because of it. Maybe if they were better people they could enjoy their lives more. How was the Lyft driver in Darren’s first video behaving poorly? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/138 "2017-03-10T01:32:47Z")
> [@ckalli1998](#): > > As a conservative Rutgers college student, there are some very liberal people on this campus, but for the most part they’re respectful about their beliefs and aren’t abrasive about their beliefs and try to yell their way to win an argument. > > In my opinion, liberals who peacefully protest at conservative events but allow their speaker to have a say are not anarchists or social justice warriors (although I disagree with their political opinions, but respectfully). > > It’s the type of people such as the leftist violent protestors at Middlebury when Professor Charles Murray spoke (or, rather, was preventing from speaking) who then attacked him when he walked back and later sent one of their own professors to the hospital with a neck brace who are Social Justice warriors, as well as hypocrites. > > I don’t know why they don’t just debate their political opponents, instead of violently lashing out at them. There really is nothing bad about having an intellectual debate with your opponents and there’s no need to be violent. Wish they could see that. Yelling at Murray and aggressively preventing him from speaking is far more effective than the intervening 22 years of logical evidence-based arguments against his book. I think it’s a good idea to shout down people who continuously express views like Murray’s. I know we can all hide behind civility and intellectual debates and all of that, but in the end, many people view Murray as a person who promotes a racist misinterpretation of scientific information. There’s no reason to discuss it. It’s an old and tired argument. Just shout it down until it gets off of campus and crawls back in its hole. There was a lot of hostility toward the Tribeca film festival last Summer because a documentary by Andrew Wakefield was included. The hostility got the documentary removed. There’s no need for public civil debate over this topic; just shout it down. People expressed their outrage over Ben Carson’s speech recently. Ben Carson changed his tune. If he hadn’t, well then shout him down. Shouting people down works and is perfectly legal. If it gets a little violent, we have laws for that. But the shouting is perfectly legal and if it gets people to stay home because they feel uncomfortable, all the better. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/139 "2017-03-10T01:35:23Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > How was the Lyft driver in Darren’s first video behaving poorly? How about you tell me why it’s important to this discussion first. ---
**Author:** ![ckalli1998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a3d4f5/32.png) [@ckalli1998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckalli1998)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207/140 "2017-03-10T01:38:57Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Yelling at Murray and aggressively preventing him from speaking is far more effective than the intervening 22 years of logical evidence-based arguments against his book. I think it’s a good idea to shout down people who continuously express views like Murray’s. I know we can all hide behind civility and intellectual debates and all of that, but in the end, many people view Murray as a person who promotes a racist misinterpretation of scientific information. There’s no reason to discuss it. It’s an old and tired argument. Just shout it down until it gets off of campus and crawls back in its hole. > > There was a lot of hostility toward the Tribeca film festival last Summer because a documentary by Andrew Wakefield was included. The hostility got the documentary removed. There’s no need for public civil debate over this topic; just shout it down. > > People expressed their outrage over Ben Carson’s speech recently. Ben Carson changed his tune. If he hadn’t, well then shout him down. > > Shouting people down works and is perfectly legal. If it gets a little violent, we have laws for that. But the shouting is perfectly legal and if it gets people to stay home because they feel uncomfortable, all the better. As you yourself acknowledged, they didn’t just “shout him down”, so to speak, they violently attacked him and jumped on his car and tried to prevent him from leaving, as well as injuring a Middlebury professor who had to be sent to the hospital. I’m a black man (and a conservative, yes, I know it’s rare), by the way, so obviously I disagree with his specious and gratuitous argument that blacks are as a whole intellectually inferior to whites due to different genetics whites supposedly having superior genetics. But all this violent protest did is garner sympathy for him. Instead, they should have fiercely debated him with scientific facts and let him speak his mind, and then took their turn and demolished his racist argument. Just my two cents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/social-justice-warriors/781207.md?page=8)